Welcome to  this month’s AUDIO EXCLUSIVES featuring the legendary Hip Hop artists, CHUCK D & PROFESSOR GRIFF, of PUBLIC ENEMY!

I promise you will enjoy what these brothers will share regarding:

The state of Hip Hop culture today

What the media hides

Where and How the destruction of True Hip Hop begain

Professor Griff’s new book

Their response to Farrakhan’s lecture series, The Time and What Must Be Done

The World Wide Revolution led by the Youth

And BONUS footage with Professor Griff as he discusses the role the so-called Jews play in the destruction of  Hip Hop, how artists are set up for failure and the Illuminati! 

 The Exclusive w/ Chuck D

 The Exclusive w/ Professor Griff

 BONUS Footage w/ Professor Griff

These audio interviews have been brought to you by :

By Ebony S. Muhammad

Photos by Hannibal Muhammad 

TUSKEGEE, Ala. (FinalCall.com) - On October 19, 2013, the Farrakhan Twitter Army, spearheaded by Brother Jesse Muhammad hosted its very first Holy Day Of Atonement 2013 Tweet Up & Appreciation Gathering in the Booker T. Washington High School gymnasium.

The purpose for this Tweet Up was to show honor and gratitude to the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, the “Commander-In-Tweet” Honoree, as well as to recognize a group within the Farrakhan Twitter Army for their hard work in spreading guidance the Minister shares each week during his 52-week lecture series, “The Time and What Must Be Done.”

The program consisted of a detailed report by Jesse Muhammad on how Minister Farrakhan was introduced to Twitter and social media, as well as the impact his presence has had nationally and internationally. Since May 11, 2013, with the help of the Farrakhan Twitter Army, “The Time and What Must Be Done” has trended nationally and worldwide for 23 consecutive weeks.

Jesse Muhammad said tweets from Minister Farrakhan inspired many all over the world, and hearing from the Minister actually saved someone’s life. During “Farrakhan Fridays” on Facebook, Minister Farrakhan responded to a woman’s question regarding why her prayers have not been answered. Unbeknownst to those reading, she was contemplating suicide. However, after the reply given by the Minister, she chose life.

A few special guests came to show their support at the Tweet Up, including Ishmael Muhammad, the student national assistant to Minister Farrakhan. A very special surprise appearance was made by the Nation Of Islam’s First Lady, Mother Khadijah Farrakhan and her daughters. Mother Evelyn Muhammad, wife of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad and their daughter Marie Muhammad were also present.

The program was emceed by two members of the Farrakhan Twitter Army, Artiium Muhammad from Miami and Halima Mahmoud of New Jersey. There were live musical performances by Jasiri X, also known as “the Peoples MC,” Wazeer the Great and Nehanda, which took them  into Part 41 of “The Time and What Must Be Done” webcast at NOI.org/thetime.

At that moment, there was just about standing room only in the high school gymnasium. The crowd was mixed with high school and college students, adults and guests visiting from various cities. An announcement was made for everyone to plug into their device of choice in preparation to tweet live during the webcast, which was a continuation of the 2012 Holy Day of Atonement address that was given in Charlotte, N.C.  (See an edited transcript of the Minister message.)

Once the viewing began, the lights were turned down and the gymnasium was illuminated by laptops, smartphones and tablets.

Read Full Coverage 

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO INTERVIEWS @ TWEET UP!

Jesse Muhammad @BrotherJesse

Halima Muhammad @Muslim_Swagg

Artiium Muhammad @MuslimsLuvJesus

Jasiri X @Jasiri_X

Kenya Muhammad @PeliKEN_Fly

Carlos Muhammad @CarlosMuhammad1

Darryl Muhammad @D_Roe101

Jahleel Muhammad @JustMuhammad

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): This particular interview is along the subject of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad escaping the death plot, therefore, I would like to delve into your testimony, as his son. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan wants us to bear witness to the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Master Fard Muhammad and to defend him as well.

You certainly came to mind. I believe you have a very special and unique testimony.

I did not realize that today (January 29) is actually the very day the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was admitted into Mercy Hospital 39 years ago where he would escape the death plot until this morning. The fact that you are in Mexico right now where he traveled before departing is significant to me as well.   

Rasul Muhammad (RM): It is an honor, it is a blessing and I feel humbled that my thinking or my thoughts would even be considered to be motivation, encouragement and inspiration to believers in this Mission and the Teachings of my father and the representation of the most Honorable amongst us, Minister Louis Farrakhan.

As a believer and student we know that there is no such thing as coincidences. So whether you want to look at it from the date, the time, the place it all is part of a mathematical code that has great wisdom and even a peep into the strategy of Allah in this time. You don’t take anything for granted, nothing! It is significant.

I pray that Allah will guide our words with whatever may be useful to your readers.

EM: Yes sir, All praise is due to Allah! Thank you very much.

Brother Jabril Muhammad mentioned in his book “Is It Possible That the Honorable Elijah Muhammad Is Still Physically Alive”, that in October of 1967 the Honorable Elijah Muhammad told Brother Jabril directly, “If Allah had not shown me how I was going to escape, I would have no hope”. To me this is one of the most profound points of proof that he did escape along with the various testimonies of others who were present.

In an interview Brother Jabril conducted with Mother Tynnetta Muhammad, she disclosed that it was during the family trip to Mexico, in December 1974, where the Hon. Elijah Muhammad first told her about the death plot and of his departure.

I would like to talk to you about that moment and if you remember this. You were nine years old, is that right?

RM: That’s correct.

EM: Were you privy to that conversation regarding his departure?

RM: No, I was not privy to that or present for that conversation between my parents. Yet, I do recall very well that time where my father first came here to Mexico and something that he said while he was here that may tie in or give clues to his consciousness of the time of where he was and what he was doing leading up to his departure.

For example, we had already been here and purchased this home about a year before he came. I recall when he first arrived, we were received by some of the special guard, National Guard, under the then President of Mexico [Luis Echeverría Álvarez]. When we arrived here to the home, which is about an hour drive from Mexico City, I remember walking my father up the steps. There are many, many, many steps in this house. I was on one side of him and Sultan, my nephew – may Allah be pleased with him – who is the father of our Imam Sultan Rahman Muhammad, was on the other side of my father. We were walking my father up the steps to the third floor. Once we got to the third floor of the home, my father went to the balcony, and it appeared that he began to weep. He kept repeating over and over again, “Thank you Allah, thank you Allah, thank you Master Fard Muhammad. Thank you for blessing me to make it here”. And he said, “This is the place I have been looking for for a long, long time”. He just kept repeating that over and over again.  That’s one point.

The second thing I recall is I was in a conversation with him. He was sitting on the balcony on another day here in our home and he said, “One day or soon people are going to say that I am dead, but I won’t be”.  I responded to him, “If anything were to happen to you, I would go into the kitchen and get the biggest knife and just kill myself”. And he started laughing and he says, “Oh you don’t have to do that son, because I will live to see your children’s, children’s children”. That would be another strong point or testimony if you’re a believer that says, “He’s not dead”.

He knew that he was going away for a period of time, and for him to say directly to me, “They are going to think I’m dead…” Actually I recall him saying also, “…but don’t believe it, don’t believe it”.  Somewhere in there that’s when I said, “If anything were to ever happen to you I would go into the kitchen and get the biggest knife and just kill myself”. That’s when he laughed and said, “No you don’t have to do that son. I will live to see your children’s, children’s, children”.

When you look back on a subject like this and you look at your whole experience with the man, I guess you could surmise that he was always telling you in bits and pieces about the future and what we would have to go through to get to that future.

I’m recalling a lot of things that he said to me as a child even before Mexico. Sometimes he would be sitting in the house, in what we used to call the “old house” next door to the Palace. Once the Palace was built, he would be sitting in his office or in a room by himself very quiet, and I would be passing by looking for an opportunity to literally play with him. He would wave his hand like, “Come on in”. Well that was my joyous moment. All of the conversations seem to me like right now to be pieces to a puzzle.

I remember I was brushing his hair. He has this really soft brush, because he only had a few strands of hair going across the top. It seems to be a hereditary thing in our family, which is greatly exemplified by my brother Ishmael (laughs). We have some receding hairlines in our family (laughs). I was brushing his hair and playing with those few strands and he would always just say, “It’s okay, Master Fard Muhammad promised me a whole new head of hair”. Things like that always kept me in the mindset that he was going through or would go through some type of transformation. The way he would talk to me about Master Fard Muhammad made me as a child think of God as so real, but in possession of such Knowledge and Power to Transform reality.

Case and point; not just with the hair but I recall on my father’s thumb. I don’t remember if it was the left hand or the right hand, but on one of his thumbs at the top was a dark, dark round patch that you could almost compare to a birth mark or a mole. He told me about that thumb of his. One day he was opening and closing the door for his daughter. I believe the daughter was my sister Ethel Sharrieff Muhammad who has passed.  She was married to the Supreme Captain Brother Raymond Sharrieff. Those cars back in the 50’s had steel, big, heavy doors. When he closed the door, after her getting in the car, it clipped off the top of this thumb as it got smashed in the door. Naturally, they rushed my father to the hospital and took the little piece of the thumb that was clipped off by closing the door, and they were not able to sew it back to his thumb. Yet, my father told me, “Master Fard Muhammad promised me that it would grow back”.  And of course it did. He showed me the thumb, and it was a perfect thumb from what I recall. It just had this dark patch at the top. He said to me, “You see? It grew back and soon this round dark patch will grow out too”.

Again, here is another account that in my young years produced an image or mindset about Allah, in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad, as a real human being with Knowledge and Wisdom that’s transformative. It was healing. I think this is the right concept of God that we all should have. It must be a concept, meaning a general understanding that He’s real and has Power. Power only means capacity. He’s a real God with the Capacity to Transform lives to Heal, to Cure, to Produce and to Create.

My father said to me as a boy, “Nothing is impossible. Nothing.” I said to him, “Prove it.” He said, “The mere idea is proof of the possibility”. He said, “If you can think it, it can be. There is no such thing as impossibility”.

I put all of that in the same category as the concept of God that he gave me as a child. What does that have to do with him being alive and surviving the death plot? If there’s a death plot that means that there are those with the thought in mind that are close up around him that do not believe in him. I think it’s in the book of John in the scriptures of the Bible, where Jesus says, “He that believeth on me, believeth not on me but on Him who sent me”. Therefore, if we doubted in the Hon. Elijah Muhammad then of course we doubted also in the God he claimed raised him and sent him.

Yes, I was aware because he made me aware of certain hypocrites around him, and we knew of certain hypocrites around him that were not only in Laboring positions in the Nation Of Islam, that also included government agents that were in the Nation Of Islam and are still in the Nation Of Islam. Yet, as the Hon. Louis Farrakhan said one day, “Betrayal would have to come from somebody that’s close to you, real close to you. You can’t have effective betrayal from somebody who’s obviously an enemy”. So that hypocrisy, that betrayal comes from both laboring, close staff members, executive officers as well as family members. The Death Plot is deep. It’s very deep.

However, ultimately in the early years of my ministry when the Minister first sent me to Detroit in 1989, I would often drive over to Chicago just to be close to him, because I would feel so alone and so abandoned in Detroit. You know, I started there before my 24th birthday, and I just saw so many problems with people and just problems period. Of course I just wanted to seek refuge. Sometimes I would come over in tears crying and crying, and the only thing he would say to me is, “You have to get closer to Master Fard Muhammad. You have to get closer to Master Fard Muhammad”. I was disappointed in that answer, because what I could see in front of me was him, Minister Farrakhan. So what I wanted in my heart was just to get closer to him. Yet, what he was telling me was to get closer to Allah, Master Fard Muhammad.

This went on several times. I would even come and just tell him that I felt so lonely and alone in a different kind of way than I had ever experienced in this work, in this Mission. One day he said to me, “Yes son, I understand. Can you imagine how alone I have felt since the departure of your father? When while your father was here all I had to do was call him up and tell him whatever the problem I was having and he would always have an answer for me. Can you imagine how alone your mother feels all of these years without your father? Can you imagine how alone your father must’ve felt since the departure of Master Fard Muhammad? Can you imagine how alone the first God Who Self-Created Himself out of the womb of triple darkness felt sitting out there in triple darkness thinking of a way of how to become?” Think over this!

What he was teaching me is that being alone and loneliness is a very intimate part of the process of our growth, maturation and growing nearer to Allah. In fact, if you haven’t experienced that then maybe you haven’t even started your process. Maybe to some degree every brother and sister who joins the Nation Of Islam, writes their letter and becomes a Registered Member may go through a period of being alone or feeling alone because of the decision they have made that was unpopular. Generally people don’t come to the Nation in groups. Generally, you write your letter individually and you join by yourself. Then maybe a friend or family member comes afterwards or they have preceded you. It seems to be a part of the journey that’s alone, where you’re alone. To me it all seems to also display aspects of the Pilgrimage, that we call Hajj in Islam, which comes from the word and the name Hajjar which is Hagar. The actual Pilgrimage or Hajj retraces the steps and journey of Hagar being put out in the wilderness with her son. Before she was put out, according to the way the story goes, she asked Abraham, “Is this of you that I must be put out or is this from Allah?” Abraham said, “It is from Allah”. Therefore Hagar said, “Then I accept”.

So we accept to make this decision. We accept to make this journey, a very critical journey. Yet, really it’s not a journey that will bring you nearer to your family and loved ones in the beginning. It is one that is designed to bring you nearer to Allah (God).

EM: Beautifully said! Thank you very much.

I interviewed Mother Evelyn Muhammad a few years ago and she mentioned that it wasn’t told to the larger body of his departure and the death plot. He didn’t share those things openly. He shared it with a small group.

RM: That’s correct.

All of the memories I have of discussions with my father were mostly private, one on one. Yet, even though as a child the concept that my father gave me was always on the Power of Master Fard Muhammad to heal and transform. Of course he said it in one of his lectures, something to the effect that if Allah could not save him then he could not save you. Then in another lecture, “I know you look at me as a sickly man, but it is written in your Book that that last man would have to go through all of the ills of the people, and this would be the way that Allah proves His Power to save an entire people”. It is by saving His man that He would bring out of the mud, bring through the plot, bring through the trial, the stress and the dis-ease and the sickness of this world and He (Allah) would make him into Himself. Then he says to us, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad at the Saviours’ Day 1974 address, “I’m not here to make a Nation of followers but a Nation of gods”.

One day our Brother Imam Sultan Rahman’s father who was better known back then as the pilot who would fly the jet that the Nation Of Islam purchased for the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, was carrying him up the steps here in this house coming from the dentist.  My father had blood going all the way down his chin and there was blood all on his shirt. Of course I was completely alarmed, so I ran over to him and helped carry him up the steps. I kept saying as I was crying, “What happened to you? What did they do to you? What happened? What happened?” My father says, “Oh, don’t worry. They just did a little work on my mouth”. It was a young dentist who is still a dentist for our family here, a good friend, had done some work on his mouth.

As they sat my father down, he said to me, “Master Fard Muhammad promised me a whole new set of teeth”.  Then I challenged him on that with my fast wisdom at nine years old (laughs). I said, “How are you gonna grow new teeth after your permanent teeth come in?” I proceeded to explain to him that after your baby teeth fall out, permanent teeth come in and no more teeth are coming in after that. He says, “Well, how did you get what you call your permanent teeth?” I said, “What do you mean? After the baby teeth fall out the permanent teeth come in.” He said, “And what told the permanent teeth to come in?” I said, “What told them to?” Then he took his finger and pointed it at his gums. What that meant was the same genetic information, the same thing that triggered the growth of anything; he actually said these word to me, “It can be told to do it again, and again and again.”

This pointed to me to the kind of Wisdom that is up on that Wheel. That Wisdom that is amongst the Scientists; a Wisdom that is reeled by God, Himself, that can literally again Transform, Heal even Re-Grow, as the Minister talked about on “The Time and What Must Be Done” last week. This kind of technology that’s on the Wheel, this more than confirms to me that my father escaped the plot and is more than alive and well in his own skin, in his own body, that has gone through a renewal and healing process. For all of us that are stricken with different health problems today, there’s hope. There’s great hope. I think it’s in the book of Romans where it says, “If we suffer with Christ, we will be delivered all together with Christ and share as heirs in his glory”.

This is what the believers need to understand today, we’re not suffering with the Hon. Elijah Muhammad as Christ right now, but we are suffering with the Hon. Louis Farrakhan who is the Representative of the Christ. If we will accept this period of suffering, which means endure… Scripture says that the race is not to the swift but the ones who will endure to the end. I found many people didn’t understand what endure means. Endure means to suffer. Therefore, the race is not to the swift but to those who suffer all the way to the end. The end is what? It is when God has timed that period when He will literally deliver us all and/or in addition destroy all of our enemies.

EM: You mentioned earlier in wanting to answer the how and why regarding the death plot. For those who are unfamiliar, why was there a death plot against the Hon. Elijah Muhammad?

RM: We can answer that question in two ways.  One, because the Messenger of Allah always comes at a particular time. God is also active along with Satan’s activity to destroy God’s Will and His People. Therefore, the presence of a Messenger of Allah in each time period marks the end of Satan’s world. There always has to be a plot to kill and destroy the one that is inspiring and influencing people against Satan’s rule and from his control. So there was naturally a plot against the individual.

Yet, at the same time in another sense, I watched an interview with my father about the Wheel, the Mother Ship. The interviewer said, “So Mr. Muhammad this Wheel or Mother Ship is actually a war ship?” And my father said, “Yes sir.” The interviewer asks, “And when will it go into effect or operation?” My father calmly looked over at the interviewer and said, “When you attack us”.

Allah says in the Holy Quran that He is not the aggressor, yet, we are to fight with those who fight with us. The key is the opposition. The attack has to be made in order for God to intervene and wipe out our enemies. We have to suffer before we are delivered. The Messenger had to suffer before he was delivered. We will have to suffer before we are delivered. We have to accept that. It doesn’t mean to surrender to it, but accept that this is a part of the journey and the start of the process. This is part of how we will escape, not by our own wisdom or might but we will escape it, because that is exactly how Allah will intervene to take us and deliver us from our enemies.

I hope and I pray that Allah is guiding my words.

This is a very heavy subject that you are dealing with, but it’s extremely important for now and the events that are taking place and that will take place.

Have you read in the Holy Quran where Allah makes enemies for His servants?

EM: Yes sir.

RM: Isn’t that something that He would make enemies for us. If Allah makes enemies for us then we can afford to believe that He has power over all things. He is Lord of ALL the worlds and Master of the Day of Requital. He is God, He is Allah and nothing happens without His permission. Satan is part of God’s permission. Satan is not self-created, neither is his devil. They are made and part of the design of Allah to bring about the perfection in His man.  Therefore, if we focus on Allah Who is our Deliverer, on Allah Who is our Saviour, Allah Who is the Sender of Messengers and Prophets and Angels. If we focus on the Deliverer I think we have a better chance at surviving the plot, because ultimately Allah is trying to make us into Him.

Everyone is asking, “Who is the Minister? What’s his identity? Who is he?” He is a man in transition as was my father who was before us. He was a man in transition, and that’s what every human being goes through when they believe in God. Belief is only a mental decision and it is in the absence of knowledge. As we grow into more knowledge, as the body was designed to follow the mind, the mind is transformed and the body is transfigured. You look like this at one time, and then you look like that at another. Yet, ultimately it is critical that you understand who you are becoming. Who is that? Ye are all gods, children of the Most High God. If you’re a child you’re already in a growth process. To become what? To become like your father. Father means author, originator. You are to become like your Father, you are to become God.  Again, my father at Saviours’ Day 1974 said, “I’m not here to make at Nation of followers, but a Nation of gods”.

Here’s a question for you. How can he make a Nation of gods if he’s not already one himself? You can’t make what you’re not. To ‘create’, you start from scratch and to ‘make’ you start from something. This is why he (the Hon. Elijah Muhammad) is called the ‘First Fruit’. We study him and the transformative power that was vested in him and is him to understand how we will escape the plot and conspiracy of death that is hanging over all of our heads, but primarily the Hon. Louis Farrakhan because he is who we’re following.

Any significant, consequential leader or person with whom Allah has favor and uses as a channel for transformative work with people, that same dynamic is always there. The ultimate goal is that we experience God coming in the Person in each and everyone of us. We will not only witness the coming of God in the Person, we will experience the coming of God through the Person of us all. I would like to end with the words of  my father, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, “Every time you look at a black man you’re looking at God”.

EM: Thank you so very much Brother Rasul for your words and testimony. May Allah continue to bless you many times over for bearing witness to all three men!

RM: All Praise Is Due To Allah!

[Photos of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad provided by Carlos Muhammad, Nation of Islam National Archivist]

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): Tell me about the first time you were molested. How old were you?

Kelly Sargeant (KS): I was 8 years old when my stepfather crept into my bedroom in the middle of the night where my little brother and I slept.  My mother was at work.  He took me into their bedroom and sat me on the side of the bed. He asked me if I could keep a secret.  I said yes.  Then he handed me a joint and told me to take a drag.  I was very afraid.  I coughed as I inhaled.  He pulled down his pants, exposing himself and asked me to touch him.  I refused.  He let me go back to my bedroom where I cried softly so he wouldn’t hear me, because I was so afraid.  A few minutes later he came back for me.  This time he took me by the hand and brought me into the kitchen where the television was on.  It was a black and white TV that sat on the kitchen table.  He laid me across the kitchen chair and pulled down my pants.  Then he began forcing himself on me.  I laid there staring at a mark on the wall above the television.  I was petrified.  I screamed and cried on the inside.

EM: How often would the thought of telling your mother come into mind? What thoughts and feelings arose during those times? What was your resolve each time in not opening up?

KS: I wanted desperately to tell my mother what my stepfather was doing to me, but I was afraid. I thought he would do physical harm to me and to my mother as well. If I didn’t speak up I would continue to suffer sexual abuse.  If I did speak up, my mother and I would both face physical abuse. I felt trapped in a hopeless situation.  I just hoped to make it through another day.  My resolve was that I could find safety only in silence.

EM: What was it like for you to see and live with your stepfather during those years? What do most people on the outside fail to realize in situations where a child’s abuser is in the home? What does it do to the child’s level of security and self esteem?

KS: I lived in a constant state of fear. I became terrified every time my mother left for work. When I’d ask to go outside to play with friends, my stepfather would not allow it.  He would make my little brother leave the house to play with his friends.  I was overcome with the fear of him forcing himself on me.  I felt like a prisoner in my own home as I hid in my bedroom listening for warning signs of his approach.  My stepfather would purposely intimidate me by constantly coming in and out of my bedroom; he would conjure up meaningless conversation and leave my bedroom door open.  I was so afraid, and I had no means of escape.

I think most people can understand a child’s sense of helplessness when the child believes there is no way of escape. What people don’t understand is why a child would remain silent.  They can’t imagine the level of fear that grips a child every day the abuse continues – listening for the footsteps approaching – watching fearfully for the abuser to enter at any moment – imagining the pain and humiliation and finally, reliving the shame.  Your heart beats faster and your breathing is shallow until your worst fears are realized, and you seem to stop breathing altogether. The shame and the fear of not being believed helps keep you silent, but it’s the threats to hurt you even more and to hurt others whom you love that keeps your lips sealed.

As a child you begin to feel unsafe in your environment.  If you can’t trust your parents, then who can you trust?  You have a secret that you are too ashamed of to share with anyone, not even your friends.  You believe you have nowhere to turn.  When you feel like you have no one you can talk to, it causes a feeling of aloneness and insecurity.

You lose self confidence because the most valuable things are stolen from you.  Your innocence is stolen along with your sense of protection, your belief in love, and your ability to trust.  You begin to judge yourself as unworthy of those things and that causes you to lose more — your pride, your credibility and your sense of value.  It’s as if someone came and scooped out your insides leaving you empty.  Your self esteem is completely destroyed.

EM: At what point did you begin to feel enough was enough? You mentioned threatening to tell what he had been doing. What brought you to that point? What was his response and what became of that encounter?

KS: I was 12 years old.  One night while sleeping I heard my stepfather and my mother fighting.  I heard something knocking against the furniture, and then I heard my mother crying.  I believed he had physically hurt her.  I was so angry that he had hurt my mother.  I decided that night that I was going to tell on him.  The next day while my mother was at work, my stepfather sent my little brother outside to play and made me stay inside.  I was terrified; however, I was also very angry that he had hurt my mother.  I sat in the living room where I felt safer than hiding in my bedroom.  He kept walking through the living room, and I sensed he was building up towards an attack.

He told me to, “Come here.”  I refused and told him that sometimes I feel that I want to tell my mother what he does to me.  He left the room and came back a few moments later with a gun.  He stood on the staircase on the other side of the room and kind of juggled the gun from hand to hand.  Then he pointed the gun at me.  He began to slowly move the aim of the gun around the room, but again I became his target.  Words didn’t come from his mouth; however, he spoke to me through his eyes.  I felt his warning and I was overwhelmed with terror.  After a few moments he left the room, but he returned shortly thereafter and gave me a smug look.  He said, “Go outside and play.”  I left and ran to my friends where I suffered in silence.  Later that day when he was at work, I told my mother everything.  I was really nervous.  I told her that I needed to tell her something very important.  Then I told my mother that my stepfather had been hurting me in my private parts, and that he said he would hurt her if I told.  She became terribly upset and asked me to tell her exactly what happened.  Then she called the police immediately.  When the police arrived we sat down at the dining room table, and I told them everything.  That night, my stepfather was arrested.

EM: Was there ever a time in high school or college that you met another girl that had a similar story like yours? If so, tell me a little bit about that. What did it provide for you emotionally?

KS: In high school I met a girl who had become pregnant by her biological father.  I recall that her mother knew about the abuse.  I was deeply saddened that her mother would allow such a thing.  I’d met others growing up.  Emotionally there was a sense of relief that I wasn’t the only one with such a horrible secret, yet also deep sadness that we have all suffered in such a way.

EM: What was it about escaping through alcohol that provided the courage to let those walls down that was different or made you feel different than before?

KS: As a young adult I wanted to be normal. I wanted to have a healthy trusting relationship, but I had the pain of emotional and psychological scars from the abuse that made me unable to trust anyone. I pretended everything was ok, but it wasn’t ok.  So I built a wall of protection around myself.

Alcohol helped me relax and dulled the emotional and psychological pain, and, temporarily, it helped my wall come down.  I wasn’t an alcoholic, but I did use alcohol as a temporary fix when I was in social situations.  Only then could I comfortably engage in conversations and relationships with the opposite sex.  I used alcohol to mask my feelings of anxiety and my lack of confidence.  I knew it wasn’t okay, but I longed to be normal, and I knew no other way.  Alcohol gave me a false sense of courage and temporary self-confidence.  Eventually, I realized that using alcohol to self medicate made me feel worse about myself.  I thought it gave me power when actually it left me powerless.  Drinking alcohol only prolonged the torture, except this time, I was doing it to myself.  It was a sad, sad cycle.

EM: When and how did your breakthrough occur? What was the spark? What feelings and thoughts rushed through your mind?

KS: I didn’t have a life or death experience.  A light bulb didn’t just come on in the middle of the night.  You know Albert Einstein’s definition of “insanity”:  doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  That was me.  I wanted a happy and successful life, but I kept making the same stupid mistakes which made me not like myself.  Deep down inside, I knew there was something more to me. 

One day I became frustrated and decided enough was enough!  I wanted to change my life and find a new direction.  I needed to become a better me.  First, I became a self-help book junkie. Next, I became a spiritual book junkie.  Finally, I became friends with God.  Then the true work began and still continues. 

Anyone that tells you that they’ve had a breakthrough and that it’s an easy road from that day forward is not being truthful.  For me, it’s systematic.  I do the research and follow directions.   One by one, I set small goals.  Day by day, I work on them.  Piece by piece, I overcome challenges.  Step by step, I find myself.  It’s a constant journey.

For example; accomplishing a goal has a domino effect.  First your confidence increases.  Once you gain self confidence, it leads to self worth.  Self worth helps you gain self respect.  Once you gain self respect; you begin to love yourself.   Self love ignites the spark which motivates the power we all have within. 

When I finally came to find self respect, I was able to accept and like the new me!  At last I had found happiness!  I remember noting exactly how I arrived at that point because I wanted to make sure I would never lose myself again.  It was a daily discussion with God and lot’s of reading both spiritual and inspirational books.  If I stop those things, I feel disconnected and I lose my power.

EM: How did learning about Oprah Winfrey’s story touch you?

KS: Learning about Oprah’s story gave me hope.  If she was able to overcome sexual abuse and become a success, I could possibly do the same!  I knew it wouldn’t be easy, but I was desperate to find a way out of my sadness, loneliness and shame.  Oprah became my inspiration.  I read the books she recommended, I subscribed to her magazine, I researched on her website and I watched the spiritual and inspirational shows on her network.  Oprah touched me by providing heaps of information to help transform my life.  It’s an amazing amount of work; a painful journey of self discovery, self acceptance and most important, self love.  The decision, dedication and tenacity it takes to travel down that road is insurmountable.  Oprah was able to do it and she now advises people all around the world.  I thought, “I want to be like her!”  I want to help others so they won’t have to suffer for as long as I did.

EM: Let’s go into how you got started with Toastmasters… What is Toastmasters and what led you to join?

KS: Almost four years ago I was on the management team of the company I worked for, and I was terrified to speak during our weekly meetings.  I would wait until the meetings were over and share my ideas with a coworker who would present my ideas to management as if they were her own.  I realized then that my fear of public speaking was impeding my success and I found a solution in Toastmasters.  Joining the Toastmasters organization became a New Year’s Resolution.  Toastmasters is a nonprofit international organization with over 300,000 members in over 14,000 clubs in 126 countries.  Clubs consists of a supportive group of individuals in your local area who share the common goal of improving their communication and leadership skills.  I decided to join Toastmasters to get over my fear of public speaking. 

EM: This year competing, you were moved to give a speech about your experience being molested? What inspired you to make it your competition speech? How was the idea received by Toastmasters?

KS: I’d entered this competition twice before and had won first runner up in the Houston district by giving an inspirational speech that was more “rah rah” than substance. I finally realized that I needed to provide more than just a motivational experience in order to win first place.  If I wanted to make it to the semifinals for a chance to compete for the World Championship, I needed something the audience could relate to and a lesson they could take with them to help with their lives.  The most relatable speeches are those of personal experiences.  Finding my voice has been one of the most important accomplishments of my life, only second to overcoming the affects of childhood molestation.  That is why I decided to make it my competition speech.  Although everyone has not been a victim of such a traumatic experience, the lessons to be learned could help with other challenges in life.  The speech was a message of hope, of tenacity, of courage, and of belief.  Each time I delivered the speech you could hear a pin drop.  A lot of people were uncomfortable; however, I continued to win at each level which eventually brought me to the world stage.

EM: After deciding to follow your heart and spirit, you performed that speech against their request and you did this at the semifinals in Malaysia. What was that experience like? What thoughts and feeling did you have before and after performing?

KS: They weren’t requests; they were suggestions and high recommendations by several more experienced toastmasters.  At first, I tried desperately to heed their advice.  I spent two months composing new speeches and stressed out as the deadline was approaching and none of my new speeches were resonating with me.  Two weeks prior to leaving for Malaysia I decided to follow my heart and share my story in spite of their recommendations.  If I was going to give a speech about a personal experience that could potentially change lives, this was the story that I had to tell. 

During the semifinals I competed against 10 other speakers in front of an audience of 1,500. I pulled speaking order number 9 and had to listen to 8 speakers before me who shared humorous and lighthearted stories.  When it was my turn, I was afraid.  I was afraid of delivering my particular speech following 8 fun stories.  I felt that my speech would dampen the mood in the room.  I thought for a moment that maybe I should’ve listened to the naysayers.  Nevertheless, this speech had been my driving force.  For the first several minutes of my delivery, the room was completely silent. Finally a moment came in my speech where the audience laughed aloud; the turning point of my speech.  From that point forward my speech became about how I found myself after being lost for so long.  When the speech was over, I was relieved.  I sat down and took off my shoes.  I said, “Well, I won’t win this round, but I did it!  It’s finally over.”  After all the contestants had spoken and it was time to announce the winners, I was shocked at the third place winner because he was really good.  Then the announcement of the second place winner was even more shocking.  I looked both directions down the aisle trying to figure out who would win first place.  When they announced my name I was overcome with emotion.  I kept repeating, “Oh my God.”  I had to put on my shoes and try to make my way to the stage.  I was so overcome with emotion.  I cried and cried and kept repeating, “Oh my God.”  The press kept asking me to smile for the photo.  I eventually managed a smile.  I felt as if it was all part of God’s plan.

EM: What exactly does it take to compete on the international level? How many competed to place?

KS: To compete at an international level you must first win several eliminating rounds which is about a six month process involving 5 competitions.  Once you surpass those levels you compete for World Championship during Toastmaster’s annual conference.  There were over 32,000 contestants this year.  Ninety-one semifinalists were flown to Malaysia.  Nine of us made it to the Finals and I was so proud to be the only female!  I placed third best speaker in the world!  I felt as if I had won first place; and I still do!

EM: What does it mean to you to not only stand up and give a speech about your experience with molestation, but you did so in spite of what fellow Toastmasters suggested AND placed! What message did you receive from that?

KS: It means that I was right in being obedient to the calling within me.  The message I received is to do what you feel in your heart.  You’re heart knows right from wrong.  It’s your mind that sometimes has difficulty with discernment.  So many people worry about taboo.  I say the heck with taboo and to share your testimony if you want to change lives.  In fact, I write in detail about it in the book I am currently writing.  The title of the chapter is “Totally Taboo; Say it Anyway!”

EM: What has life been like for you since?

KS: It has been a wild ride!  I work a full time job, and in the evenings and on weekends I work on my passion for public speaking.  Since my win I’ve been asked to give presentations and be a guest speaker for many events.  Therefore, I am building my library and preparing myself for the New Year ahead.  I love sharing my testimony and educating others on transformational methods of accomplishing their goals.  It is my hope to be a full time speaker which would allow me to do what I love while serving others.

EM: What would you like to say to women and girls who have or are in pain from being sexually abused, and battle feelings of shame, guilt and loneliness?

KS: If the abuse is happening now – speak up today.  Tell someone you trust. The one you trust may be your mother, the mother of a friend, your school counselor, or your pastor. It’s time to take back control of your life and the only way to do that is to tell someone.  It’s never too late to speak up.  Speaking up is the beginning of the healing process.

If you’ve been abused in the past and are continuing to suffer – seek help from a psychologist, psychiatrist or group therapy.  Don’t make the mistake of trying to figure it out on your own.  Seek direction from someone you trust and a professional.

Have a conversation with yourself about who you are.  Tell yourself you will not be defined by this experience. The past is over. You are a survivor. You can control your life and you can decide your future.  God loves you and there is nothing that you can do that would make God love you less.  Ask for help.  Speak up today.

If you are afraid of being harmed think about the consequences.  Physical pain is temporary.  Emotional pain is long lasting and can be permanent.  For example; if you were getting bullied at school and you were pushed down on the concrete and scraped your knee; the pain and bruise would eventually go away.  However, if you never speak up and tell the principal, you could continually get bullied and would grow up feeling depressed and insecure.  Stop the cycle; speak up and save yourself right away.

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

KS: If anyone has any questions or would like to contact me about my keynote speeches, please have them go to my website www.kellysargeant.com .

EM: Thank you so much for sharing your journey with Hurt2Healing! Absolutely inspiring! 

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): You recently released a new single, “Evil Knievil”.  It’s very refreshing to hear straight forward, unapologetic and fearless lyrics in Hip Hop. We really don’t hear enough of that.

David Banner (DB): I put out a tweet a couple days ago so that people would be clear. Some people would want to believe that I’m doing what I’m doing for shock-value, but what I challenge people to do is debate or deny anything that I write. I don’t write anything from emotions anymore. I’m done with emotions; that’s my old career. I based everything that I do on facts. If it fits you then I’m talking about you, whoever you are. Good, bad, Black, White…whatever it may end up being. All I deal in is the truth. There’s something going on right now from a vibrations standpoint and from a spiritual standpoint. There’s a shift that I can’t quite explain. If we don’t do something right now, it may be another 50 or 100 years before Black people will be in a position to make the type of change that I feel right now. It’s not like I have a choice to do what I’m doing right now, it’s a must.

EM: Yes sir, and the urgency of it is definitely necessary.

The type of Hip Hop that we’re hearing today, in mainstream, is void of the edu-tainment aspect; meaning music with a message – the consciousness, the empowerment, the pride, the intellectual stimulation. The subject matter is so degrading and counterproductive to changing the condition that we are in. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan tweeted, “One song can wake up nations. So the cultural community must rise and be infused with ideas that can lead to liberation”.

Your track “Evil Knievil”, in my opinion, is a great wake up message. Can you expound on the idea, your goal with this song and what inspired it?

DB: When I went to Ferguson and I saw the fire in these children’s eyes, I saw the willingness of them to lay down their lives for what they believe is right. Evil White people made a n*gger. N*ggers were made. We were never n*ggers, and we were never meant to be n*ggers. We were bred to be that way. However, what they never ever calculated were those n*ggers turning on them. Now what’s amazing is that the inbred hate that they tried to create for us has now turned on them.

These kids want more, and the reason why they are the way they are is our fault. Our kids are a reflection of what we did or did not do. I refuse to point fingers at these children because they are children. Therefore, instead of criticizing them, show them how to be successful at this.

Part of the reason why entertainment is this way is because Black folks don’t buy Black music. The reason why I’m able to do what I do is because I run a multi-media company, and I do it very well. For me this is a personal journey. I just want to feel that I did all that I could do, regardless of how people react. There was a time where I couldn’t sleep. When I wasn’t doing what I was supposed to do, when I wasn’t on a mission and doing what I was called to do, I couldn’t sleep at night. I sleep like a baby now.

EM: That’s a very strong message to send regarding your purpose and utilizing your talent to fulfill the assignment that you were given by Allah (God). I think that in terms of having peace of mind, that’s how you know you’re on the right path.

I want to talk to you about the responsibility that you are assuming with your talent and other artists such as Jasiri X, Jay Electronica and even T.I. who are taking a very proactive and objective approach. Other artists want to talk about money, sex, violence and drugs, because ‘it’s what’s going on in the community’. Yet, that’s very subjective, and it doesn’t have a base or reference point. It doesn’t have a solution to it, and it’s on a very low frequency. Yet, when you and the other artists I mentioned take this approach such as in your track “Evil Knievil”, you’re pointing out the source of these issues by name. You talked about police brutality, crack in the community as well as past events such as the bombing of “Black Wall Street”.

DB: I’m basically talking about the most violence man on this Earth. White men are the most violent men. Again, I’m not speaking from an emotional standpoint. Historically speaking, and let’s be more specific; old White men. Anywhere that old White men have gone people have died. That is the truth. They try to paint us as savages. The truth is Black folks didn’t act the way they’ve acted until a year after integration. People don’t talk about those studies. We didn’t know the word n*gger until we got here (America). We saw them (Whites) call us n*ggers. We didn’t beat ourselves. The way that Black men beat other Black men is near savage. We don’t beat anyone else like that. I’m not saying that it’s anyone else’s fault, we still have a responsibility. However, until we know the truth and the history behind the reason we act the way the we act, we will never be able to solve the problem.

EM: Yes sir, you went right into my next question regarding the importance of being able to look back at those points in our history that’s in the lyrics in your song.

We’re living in a time where a lot of these children don’t know about those events and are not being taught what happened. Like you said, our responsibility is passing that information on and we have not been doing a good job of that.

With that being said, Minister Farrakhan said in the recent lecture, “The Troubled World: What Should We Be Doing?” as it relates to Ferguson, “Ferguson is the microcosm of the macrocosm.” He stated that it will eventually make its way into cities like Chicago and that there is a conspiracy to destroy the Black youth. What are your thoughts about what is taking place in Ferguson, the Minister’s warning for other cities and the conspiracy to destroy the Black youth?

DB: It goes back to slavery. My personal opinion is that Black on Black crime stems from White supremacy. When we were slaves, the person that we looked up to the most was the slave master because he had the money, the power and all of those things. Therefore, what ended up happening is what’s called Stockholm syndrome [hostages express sympathy and positive feelings toward their captors sometimes to the point of defending them].  It’s a similar syndrome that Black people have. A lot of people got mad at me for saying this on CNN; the reason why a lot of Black kids kill each other is the same reason why White cops kill Black men. We don’t have any respect for our lives the same way they don’t. They don’t love our lives and we don’t love our lives. The truth is there’s a reason why we don’t love our lives. The reason they hate us …I don’t know. We didn’t do anything but build this country for free and take care of their kids. I do know why [they hate us], but from a practical standpoint there is no reason for White men to hate Black men.

To answer your question about Ferguson: I was telling someone the only reason why we know what’s going on in America now is because of these cell phones. They’ve been killing us since we’ve reached these shores. Before integration it was legal. They had to find a way to continue doing what they wanted to do. They started doing it within the system. The scary thing is usually when they’re wrong and they’re caught on tape, they chill for a while. However, every week since Mike Brown was killed, a cop has killed somebody. This has been the case since slavery, after slavery and it has continued. I believe to a certain degree that it is the elite White man’s sport to kill Black males. We have always been a sport to them.

EM: You just sparked some words of one of our Student Ministers, Brother Abdul Muhammad, who talked about these occurrences as ‘labor contractions’. The closer they are in time and intensity means you’re getting closer to a delivery. When we look at Jordan Davis and Trayvon Martin, there was a little bit of time between the two. Yet, like you just said, since the murder of Mike Brown every week the police are beating and killing Black men and women.

Therefore, when Minister Farrakhan says that one song can wake up nations, do you think that it’s one of those elements to resurrect our people and their thinking? These young brothers and sisters are fearless, they’ll put their life on the line. Yet, there’s another population that’s still being lulled to sleep. The intensity and frequency of these incidences are getting closer and stronger to where people are starting to wake up. Where do you see your part as a leader in the Hip Hop community to aid that resurrection with your lyrics?

DB: The younger generation don’t care one way or another. They’re either all the way for it or they just don’t know. My personal opinion is there are rich Black folks who don’t want the system to change. I don’t try to get mythological, I don’t try to get super smart on people. Stuff is very simple. Why would rich Black people – and there are exceptions to the rule – why would they want to change the system when they’ve made millions and billions on it being exactly the way that it is right now? That’s the same thing about some of our leaders. A lot of our leaders don’t want Black people to be free. How are they going to get the money that they’ve gotten by shaking us down? They get money for shaking our community down. I don’t think that they’re asleep. I think that they’re wide awake and they just want us to calm down. They want things to go back to normal, as long as it doesn’t affect them personally and their money.

There’s a line in my song, “I was on my way to Heaven, but I stopped and turned around for my people”. Do you know how many people come to me and say, “Dude, do you see how much money you’re making with this multi-media company? This is the most money you’ve ever made in rap. Why are you so political now? Dude, you’re on your way to Heaven”. My response is, it ain’t Heaven without my people.

EM: Yes sir! Beautifully stated. Thank you very much for the work you are doing and the stance you are taking to make and be that change.

DB: Thank you sis.   

You are welcome to follow David Banner on Twitter @TheRealBanner  

Click the image to listen to Evil Knievil

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): It’s very difficult to open up about our trials and talk about them without feeling ashamed. I really commend you and what you are doing as a life coach with your company The Journey To A Better YOU.

How did you get into being a life coach? Most people are familiar with you by way of American Idol. How did The Journey To A Better YOU come about?

Kimberley Locke (KL): The Journey To A Better YOU came about in many different ways. I think as we go through our lives and find our own personal journey, things fall into place, and we really don’t know that they’re falling into place. That is the beauty of God and the whole orchestration of life. When we think we’re headed in one direction there’s really something else planned for us.

Immediately after American Idol I lost weight. I started out as a Lane Bryant model, which is plus size. Immediately after doing that I started Celebrity Fit Club, Jenny Craig and I lost weight. That was great, fine, well and good. When I was with Lane Bryant I traveled across the country and did a lot of meet and greets at the store. People knew me as a singer, but they also knew me as a real woman with a real body and they can relate to me. I never forgot that experience even after I lost weight. I learned so much about myself, from Lane Bryant to now, and that’s how The Journey To A Better YOU came to be.

I wanted to help other women on their personal journey to self-discovery and help them really understand themselves. I believe a lot of us just don’t know ourselves at all, including myself more so at one point in my life than now. I was just going through my life thinking that things were happening to me, allowing things to happen to me, feeling like I didn’t have any control or power over it. That’s what The Journey To A Better YOU is. I know for a fact that people don’t wake up in the morning saying, “I want to be overweight” or “I want to be unhealthy”. They don’t say it on a conscious level, but somewhere on a subconscious level they don’t feel worthy, they don’t feel loved and most importantly they don’t feel supported. They don’t feel like they can do it or that they can change their lives. That’s what The Journey To A Better YOU is really about.

Sure there’s the external or physical regarding losing the weight and being healthy, but it really is about mind, body and spirit. It’s about healing all of the parts of yourself. I believe that people lose weight but they really don’t keep it off unless they heal themselves on the inside, emotionally.

EM: Thank you. That’s beautiful, because I think that a lot of defeat comes into play when people only consider the external. They work out really hard or do the crash diet, yet they don’t get to the root of what’s causing the appetite, that emotional appetite and being able to curb that.

KL: Yes, and I’m going to say that most of the diets and regimens out there don’t deal with what’s going on inside. They only deal with the food and the exercise. We all know that. I have so many clients of mine that say, “I know what to do, I just don’t do it”. Well let’s get to why you don’t do it. Let’s get to why you don’t love yourself enough to do it or think highly enough of yourself to do it and to take care of yourself. I think that a lot of people don’t want to get into that stuff, because it’s painful so they continue to, as I like to say, reinjure themselves by continuing in that same cycle and never breaking the cycle. You see that in the world today. That cycle exists all around us.

EM: Yes ma’am. I would like to mention a quote from your website where you say, “Weight loss is directly connected to your emotional relationship with yourself”. That is a very profound statement, because as you shared before we’re disconnecting the two; the physical from the spiritual as well as the emotional. With anything, whether it be weight loss or any kind of struggle we’re striving to overcome, what you’re saying is our ability to do that is directly connected to how we feel about ourselves and our relationship with ourselves.

How did you come to discover that? What was that moment like when that particular quote manifested itself to you? How did you come to discover that relationship?

KL: One of the pivotal moments in my life was that I was dating a guy and he was in therapy. I had never been to therapy, and we were starting to get serious. He picked me up one night, and literally our Friday night date was at the therapist’s office. He had some things he wanted to share with me, but he wasn’t sure that he could articulate them well enough on his own. He was emotionally intelligent enough to say, “I need some help with this”. We went to his therapist, and the best thing that came out of that relationship is that she’s still my therapist to this day, even though I’m not with that guy. She’s been my therapist now for probably nine years. This is where I really started to understand myself. I remember having an epiphany in her office saying, “I have got to tell other people what I know”. This is how I came to that statement that weight loss is directly related to our emotional relationship with ourselves. We have all kinds of emotional connections to things that we don’t even acknowledge. We go through life thinking that this is just the way it is. We only look at it on the surface, and it’s not until you get below the surface and find out why you do what you do then you never really get to know yourself. You only think you do.

The biggest epiphany for me was that I lived in fear for a great period of my life; complete, total, utter fear. People wouldn’t believe that about me, but because I’ve worked through it I can say it out loud. I would have never said it to anybody nine years ago. Yet, because of things that happened in my childhood and things that happened to me as I was growing up, the way I learned how to cope as a child, I lived in a lot of fear. Facing that fear is one of the most unpleasant things I probably had to do in my entire life, but if I wanted to grow and keep growing I had to face it.

EM: I really want to commend you for even mentioning that you’re in therapy, because from the Turning Wounds Into Wisdom event Hurt2Healing recently hosted, just about all three of the featured speakers said that they were in therapy at one point or another. I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book, Black Pain: It Only Looks Like We’re Not Hurting, by Terrie Williams where she goes into detail about how there is such a stigma within our community about therapy and counseling.

In your words and with your experience, and I don’t know if that was ever a barrier for you, but how would you encourage others who may be thinking about seeking therapy but are just a little timid and unsure about it?

KL: I would say this, people have reservations about therapy. I am not exaggerating, but there have been times when I’ve gone into my therapist’s office and asked her not to talk but just to listen to me, because I just need to say what I need to say. I just need to be heard. She does that. Being there to provide me with whatever I need for support. I think for those of us, especially in the Black community when we grow up with the lack of support whether it be an infrastructure of family support, friend support or business support; when you grow up without that support you don’t know how to let it into your life. Therefore it’s hard to believe that somebody who is not connected to you could care enough to sit down and actually hear you without judgment, with love and compassion.

That’s another thing with The Journey To A Better YOU – with love, compassion and non-judgment – those are my three approaches. That’s what therapy should be. The moment you go to therapy and you feel like you’re being judged, you need to find a new therapist. That’s first and foremost. I recommend to anybody if you’re thinking about going into therapy, go interview three therapists. That is your privilege, that is your right. Interview and go with who you feel comfortable with. Trust your instinct, trust your gut. I would say in my opinion Ebony, everybody should be in therapy. Everybody should have a therapist. I’m actually driving to my therapist right now, I kid you not. It’s such a beautiful outlet to have that repore with one person that you can connect with, that you can share with, to be vulnerable with. Those are all major issues with our community; sharing, being comfortable and being vulnerable. I think vulnerable, regardless of your race or ethnicity, is just a human issue. It’s very difficult especially when we live in such a judgmental world where everybody is being judged on every term. I would say to anybody who is thinking about going to therapy is that you lose nothing by giving it a shot. Is it easy? No. There have been times where I’ve left my therapist and said to her, “I don’t think I’m coming back”. Yet, after I leave and I come home and I process and I digest it all, I realize that whatever she did to ruffle my feathers, it made me start thinking down and different path. It was good for me.

EM: Yes ma’am. Thank you for sharing that. You actually went right into my next question in regards to the compassion, the non-judgment and the love and that being a very important approach to anything when striving to overcome difficulty especially when facing yourself let alone someone else. I think it can be difficult when you have that inner-critic that is so much louder than that compassionate side.

How do you assist people to be compassionate to themselves, to be non-judgmental to themselves and how to love themselves?

KL: What’s so interesting is that we’re so quick to love others before we love ourselves. That is one of my main focal points. When I work with my clients I typically work with them in their homes or I have clients that I work with via Skype. One of the things is always pointing out the truth versus the lie, because we go through our daily lives telling ourselves lies every day.  Whether it’s “You’re not good enough”, “You didn’t try hard enough”, “You’re not pretty enough”, “You’re not skinny enough”, or whatever it is. Whatever that lie is I try to help my clients to become conscious at what they’re saying to themselves on a daily basis. Once they realize it they say, “Oh my God, I didn’t even realize that that’s what I’m saying to myself”, or “I didn’t even realize that I did that”. It’s very eye-opening and now they become aware of it and they’ll say to me, “I caught myself like three or four times saying that to myself and can’t believe that I talk to myself that way”. We just become so conditioned to the wrong things, unfortunately, but the biggest piece of it is that you didn’t get that way overnight. Somewhere many, many years ago probably during your childhood somebody planted that seed and it took root and it grew without you really knowing it. That’s why I’m a big advocate of we have to be careful of what we say to ourselves just as much as we have to be careful of what we say to each other. Before you know it you have a lot of unconscious negative thoughts floating around in your head that you don’t even know how they got there.

EM: You just reminded me of a quote that I read, I think it was on Twitter, where it said, “Our thoughts can be the biggest liars”.

KL: Yes! It is so true. I don’t have any children, but I have nieces and nephews and I try to be very conscious of what I plant in their mind, what I say to them. Sometimes you never know what you’re going to say that they’re going to latch onto and start to believe. They can latch onto a positive thought just like that can a negative thought.  I think that a lot of people, when they hear stuff over and over again, start to embody it and they start to live it out. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy; again good or bad.

EM: They’re like negative affirmations.

KL: Right! Who wants a negative affirmation? (laughs)

EM: Not me! (laughs)

KL: Nobody! (laughs)

EM: Right, and I definitely agree that those things can be very subconscious and we don’t realize we have these thoughts. When we come into contact with certain people it’s how their energy can affect us and cause us to feel a certain way and we wonder, “Why do I all of a sudden feel so down when just an hour ago I was excited?” I know whenever I encounter that I’ll ask myself, “What did I eat? What did I watch? What did I listen to? Who did I come across?” I do this whole inventory of what happened that day.

KL: That’s great! I do that with my clients. When they tell me something happened or they “fell off of the wagon” I ask them to retrace their steps for at least the past 72 hours; what did they eat, who did they make contact with, where were they? People, places and things. We get so comfortable in a lot of areas in our lives and another area that we get comfortable with are the people in our lives. Really take that inventory of the people in your life, because some of the people in your life are for a reason, some people are there for a season and other people are there for a lifetime. You have to know when their season or reason has expired. That’s very important because we’re all on a path, we’re all at different points on the path and some are moving a little faster than others and some are moving slower. That’s the beauty of life and how we’re all connected at different points in our lives. When you’re like, “Oh I used to be so in touch with this person, now we really don’t talk that much”. Well that’s because of the way life works where maybe that person was only meant to be in your life at that particular point. However, a lot of people want to hang on to people, places and things when they’ve outgrown them.

EM: That’s a very powerful point when you can understand that you’ve outgrown a person, place or thing. I think you become very uncomfortable.

KL: Yes because it forces you out of your comfort zone.

EM: Yes ma’am.

The next thing I would like to talk to you about are emotional triggers. I think that is so important especially when dealing with overcoming a struggle. You speak about people “falling off of the wagon”, but what was it that caused that?

How are you able to help people to identify those triggers and help them to defuse them in a healthy way when it comes to weight loss or anything in life?

KL: With love, compassion and non-judgment. People fear judgment more than anything. I’ve had my clients lie to me! They’re like, “…because I didn’t want to tell you that I did this.” I’m like, “It’s okay”. Nobody’s perfect. We’re not perfect. People fear judgment more than anything, so they would rather not address it at all. My job is to build a relationship with my client. The only thing I require of my clients is honesty. They have to be honest otherwise I can’t help them. If I’m blaming and shaming and judging them, they’re not going to open up to me. They’re not going to share with me, and they’re not going to be able to work through.

My job is to help them understand that it’s a journey and not a sprint, and that along the way you will get distracted. I guarantee you will get off path, but once you have the necessary tools to get back on track and not “throw the baby out with the bath water” because you got off track once, that’s what makes you successful. No matter what you’re doing, whether it’s weight loss or starting a new business or starting a new relationship. One mistake doesn’t negate all the other work that you’ve done and it’s a learning moment in the process. You learn from that and you move on from that, and the beautiful thing is knowing that you can move on from it. Some people get stuck.

My job is to be a cheerleader. (laughs) I always joke with my clients telling them I’ve got my pom poms out. (laughs)

EM: I know that’s right! (laughs)

KL: I want them to succeed. Believe it or not more people than not have ever had a true cheerleader in their life.

EM: Right, yes ma’am. Beautifully said!

With those emotional triggers, what was it like for you as it relates to you overcoming certain difficulties in your life? How were you able to identify some of your emotional triggers?

KL: Paying close attention. Emotional triggers are everywhere. It could be a smell, it could be a tree, it could be a flower, it could be a person’s voice or it could be a food. It could be anything. It could be a song on the radio. When you don’t know your triggers, they catch you off guard. When you know them then you can mitigate the impact of how they’re going to affect you.

I always recommend that everybody should write and journal. Log your feelings during the day, especially when you’re on a weight loss journey it’s very important to write how you feel, not just what you eat. How you feel and what you’re feeling like and what you were feeling before you ate that bucket of ice cream and how you felt after eating that bucket of ice cream. Most of the time it’s not about the ice cream. That loser guy that you dated, it’s not about him. It’s about something going on inside. For me, I did a lot of writing and I got really honest, painfully honest with myself. It’s that type of honesty that changes your life for the better, because everybody has a story. Some people’s stories are better than others and some people’s are worse than others. At the end of the day nobody really knows your story better than you. I know that nobody knows my story better than me.

When I have these moments of self-sabotage, I have to sit down and process it and ask, “Why did I do this and why did I think that it would be different, because I’ve already been down this road before”. That applies to anything; food, relationships, anything. It’s that brutal honesty and identifying and then connecting it back to moments. I did a lot of connecting to my childhood and that was very helpful for me. I understand how I’ve developed these coping mechanisms as a child that no longer work for me as an adult. That takes a lot of honesty.

EM: Very powerful and so true.

My last question is about your show “Cooking with Kimberley”. Like I said at the beginning, I was so excited watching it! How did the cooking show begin? In regard to the relationship with the emotional aspect, have you found that what you’re eating and what you’re instructing your viewers to eat has a direct affect on their emotional well-being?

KL: Once I did Jenny Craig, eating out of a box, I lost weight and I remember thinking, “I can’t eat out of a box for the rest of my life” (laughs) and I love food. Therefore, what I started doing was getting into the kitchen more, cooking more and I started to love it. It really made me happy, and I loved experimenting with different foods and I grew up in the South. What I found was that my pallet was very limited as far as what I was eating, the foods that I was familiar with. I began to explore the world of food and I started cooking. It all goes back to wanting to help other people to not be intimidated by going into the kitchen and cooking and to develop a healthy relationship with food. You’ve got to know your food. It’s one thing to order food off of a menu and make a healthy choice. It’s another thing to be in your kitchen preparing that food and saying, “You know what I’m going to use a little bit less of this because I know it’s good for me if I use less, and I’m going to add more vegetables”. That’s like hands-on experience of really taking responsibility and being accountable for what you’re putting in your body.

Through that process I started to read a lot about food and the affects food has on your body. I kept a log of what I ate and my weight and how food affected my weight. I learned that my body does not like a lot of carbohydrates. If I want to blow up and put on ten pounds overnight, all I have to do is sit down and eat some carbs, like pasta. It makes me feel bad. Therefore, I started reading about all of the negative affects sugar has on our body, and you know I felt so deprived wondering why are we not learning about this in school. Why don’t people know about this? Then, as I started going back and forth from Nashville to California I realized, geographically, I was at such a better advantage food-wise living in California. If I went home to Tennessee I’d have to go to two and three supermarkets just to get all of my fruits and vegetables. Just understanding the difference from neighborhood to neighborhood and how the grocery stores are stocked, that was eye-opening for me.

Growing up with a single parent I understand it was cheaper for my mom to feed me canned food and packaged food than to feed me whole foods. “Cooking with Kimberley” is like a bridge between my desire to educate people and help people lose weight. “Cooking with Kimberley” is right there in the middle, because I try to make it fun, I try to make it simple and I try to slowly introduce things to people, because that’s how I changed my life.

There are things I don’t even eat anymore, which is hilarious. I grew up as a junk food baby. I grew up eating chips and drinking soda. I thought I would never be able to stop drinking sodas. I could eat a whole bag of potato chips without even blinking an eye. I don’t eat chips anymore, I don’t even crave them. “Cooking with Kimberley” is a fun way for me to introduce some fun recipes, give people some alternatives. I’m not a follow the recipe type of person, so I encourage people to take my recipes and doctor it up if they need to. They can make it what they want it or need it to be so that they can enjoy it.

EM: I agree that your show is very fun and easy. I was watching it and saying to myself, “Oh wow I’ve got all of that in my pantry!” (laughs) It’s not anything that one would have to go on a scavenger hunt for, and I think people will really appreciate that.

KL: (laughs) Exactly. Sometimes we can be so intimated by trying new things and say, “Oh, I’ll just eat what I always eat”. Yet, it doesn’t work. I believe that we can make little changes every day, not try to overhaul our diet all at once, but make little changes every day and it makes a huge impact on our day-to-day lives.

EM: When we tend to crave something that it’s due to an emotional dilemma. What are your thoughts about that?

KL: Absolutely! You know what my connection to potato chips was? My dad used to pick me up every day from the babysitter’s and he would buy me a chocolate Yoohoo and a bag of potato chips. My relationship with my father is not as strong as I would like for it to be, but that’s one of the few positive moments that I had with him. It kind of took me to my happy place. I think that there’s a lot of those connections. If you can’t identify the trigger then you can’t change it.

EM: Beautiful! Thank you so much for your time and sharing your experiences! It was a pleasure and I learned so much from you and about you that I deeply appreciate. I love your spirit and all of the good work you are doing. By you sharing all that you’ve overcome makes it a lot easier for those who are still struggling and that is honorable and inspiring.  

KL: Thank you so much! I really appreciate that. I’m glad that I came across your magazine, and I’ll continue to follow you. Much success to you!

EM: Thank you very much! Likewise Sis!

You are welcome to follow Kimberley Locke on Twitter @KimberleyLocke as well as visit her online at The Journey to A Better You , Cooking with Kimberley  as well as the official website for Kimberley Locke.

“I’ve been stuck. Stuck in my mind, so frustrated with my life, trying to figure out how to live not knowing who am I. Being a black man I walk with my head down but inside atomic bombs are going off from the time I wake till the time I sleep. The things I’ve learned about Islam are completely opposite from the words I’ve been reading on this site concerning the articles. I would think that one would even dare to think that way about my SELF and could never really be a focused black man who really knows who he is and what he’s a part of. I have so much to say concerning me. Reading these articles about God and the black man.  I need to know the truth about Islam, and the truth about me.”  — Yusef Green

How would you respond to this brother and any brother feeling this way about himself? I believe from what you shared in New Orleans, he would benefit greatly from your experience coming in to Islam and what you learned about yourself within the Fruit Of Islam (FOI) class. Please expound on that as well as how the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan taught you what it means to love yourself as a Black man.

Rashad Muhammad (RM): Since most of your questions have some aspect concerning love, I would like to start this interview with defining my understanding of love.

According to the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan in Study Guide #18 Rising Above Emotions Into The Thinking of God, “Though Love is generally defined as an emotion, I would say that love is not an emotion; Love is the Mother of Emotion. Love is the Creative Force out of which all things come. Love can be broken down into four (4) principles: Freedom, Justice, Equality and Obedience to the will of Allah (God). We call our intense feeling of like and dislike Love and Hate.

But Love is not just an intense feeling. That is a limitation that this world has placed on it, making it our emotional reaction to something”. This goes right into my thoughts. Allah loves us so much that He creates everything we need to sustain life, even before we are created in the wombs of our mother’s. There is nothing that we can think of or that we need or want that He has not provided for us. All that is in His universe has been made in the service of man.

According to what we have been taught, it’s the promise of God and the Blackman’s future and the knowledge of his past that this world does not want him to know. So before he was created in the womb of his mother, this world worked to destroy his very existence, by creating an environment that tries to crush the mind and thoughts of anyone who would recognize greatness in a Blackman and dared to teach him. This kind of hatred of the Blackman is supported by institutions created by our open enemy that is against our rise.

The Devil blocks and tries to ensure that the prerequisite knowledge that is needed to grow into a “God”, does not reach the Blackman, which is the knowledge of God and self which are one in the same and the knowledge of other than self, the Devil, and the knowledge of the time. Once he (we) the Blackman understands this and accepts the offer, which is the mind of Allah (God) in the person of Master Fard Muhammad (MFM), then we may start the journey to God and become ourselves, which can be a long and painful struggle with great rewards. When we gain the knowledge of God, we will learn to love Him then out of His Love and Mercy we learn to love ourselves. The reason I say His love, is because “God is Love” and all love comes from God. Love presupposes duty, and He has done by us a great duty making everything we need to sustain life. This justifies us being dutiful to Him by living according to His creation of us. When we do so, that allows us to live in harmony with every person and the things that Allah has made to serve our existence which proves His love for us.

EM:  What was your life like before you joined Nation Of Islam?

RM:   My life was that of a typical Blackman raised by a strong mother without the influence of a father. Growing up in affordable housing apartments units better known as “The Projects”. Not having adequate funds to sustain balance in the lives of eight children my mother struggled. Being poor without the understanding of what it means and not knowing why I couldn’t have the clothes I desired or eat the foods I wanted led to many question that were not answered. In this kind of environment as children we would mock and taunt one another about the condition of our lives, and not to feel ashamed, we lied. This behavior led to hatred and pain that produced destruction in the lives of most of us who live in these housing units.

I didn’t know how to handle humiliation and embarrassment. So most of my childhood and teenage life was fill with self-hatred and rebellion against my mother, the school system and all whom I thought didn’t have love for me. I found myself in trouble at home, in school and my neighborhood. I would try to hurt any and every one that caused me pain. I was not a bad child just confused and potentially dangerous, which led me into the street as a hustler using trick dice to rob unsuspecting working men of their hard earn monies. My mother did the best she could to instill Christian values in my sibling and I, so we were God conscious but it was not the guiding light of our lives. She tried to shield and guide me from the practice of self-destruction, but I rebelled. She was not successful and I fell into the pits of life where I was robbed and deprived of the very essential that were needed in becoming a man. Independence, self-sufficiency and the ability to do for self which is paramount for every young boy who’s desirous of become a man.

I found myself in a terrible state not knowing what to do and where to go, until I found The teachings of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad as taught by The Honorable Minister Farrakhan. In the teachings, is a profound understanding of the destruction of the Blackman and the only solution to solving all of his problems. The teachings forced me to analyze myself, the things that I placed values on which were based upon lies taught and used by Satan to destroy the Blackman’s mind and his ability to think. I now have the solution to solving my problems and the ability to think, exposing and crushing the mind that has supported my destruction.  Because of this teachings I’m now being freed, justified and made equal to all civilize people on the earth. With love and respect for myself, my Mother, and all who had a part in my development in becoming the man I destine to be; I now have the ability to take on the responsibilities for my life and family. All praises are due to Allah and His Christ to whom I will forever be indebted.

EM:  What prompted you to visit the Mosque, and what inspired you to join?

RM: It was an invitation from Prison Minister Abdullah Muhammad and the gift of the book Message to the Blackman in America. As I read the book it unlock many question that I had pertaining to God and religion.  After reading The Honorable Elijah Muhammad response to the Imperial Wizard of KKK I was very proud to see a Blackman with strength standing up to white people. The Muslims were very active in my neighborhood.

There were three Muslim Restaurants and they also held meetings at the local college, and my barber was also a Muslim. I thought it would be nice to one day become a Muslim or Mason because of their ability to organize and secure black people. When Minister Abdullah invited me, I gladly accepted and I have been active ever since. This has been the best decision of my life, I’m very grateful to Allah for His intervening in my life. I highly recommend for all young black men the book (Message to the Blackman in America) as required reading.

EM: What challenges did you face as you were learning what true self-love was as well as how to love others?

RM: The challenge that I faced, in my opinion, is believing that I have value and that God loves me and the discipline to change. As a people, we have been taught that black life has no value and we accept that concept. The evidence is in how we treat one another and the reverence we have for others. I needed to be retrained in my thinking because of the many years under the tutelage of white supremacy and black inferiority. So there were times I found myself acting out of emotion, which robs one of the process to think, allowing inferior minds to govern your actions. So I placed emphasis on Belief, “for as he thinketh in his heart so is he” Proverbs 23:7.  It starts with believing in God’s love, which makes it easy to love others once you love self.

EM: What words from the HMLF stand out to you as it relates to self-love and what it means to be a black man in America?

RM: That Allah has come Himself to claim the black man and women as His own, and that we would be His people and He our God. To me this is the greatest thing that has happened to the Blackman since his sojourn to America. Allah (God) consider us as His own, and He has come to restore His mind and heart in us. This is the greatest love story that has ever been told. I say rejoice and be glad, for this is the day that our Lord has made and it is marvelous in our sight. All praises are due to Allah for Coming in the person of Master Fard Muhammad!!!

EM: In what ways have you seen the HMLF grow in love with himself as an example to you and others who travel(ed) with him?

RM:  The beauty of The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is his heart and the way Allah formed him. He went through the same vicissitudes of life that we are going through. In my opinion, he suffered from the lack of love in self as many of us do. But it was his profound love for God that allowed him to overcome his insecurities and fall in love with himself. I will try to explain how that happens. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is a humble man so he did not spend time thinking of himself, most of his time was in reflection of Allah (God) and The Honorable Elijah Muhammad.  As he was being developed in the teachings, he discovered a gift. The more he uncovered and perfected the gift, (his ability to represent The Honorable Elijah Muhammad), the greater his love grew for Allah and The Honorable Elijah Muhammad. His love for his teacher is so great that he dedicated his life to the perfection of the word, to whereas he is a living example of Their love for us. So as he grew, he started to see the God in himself and naturally fell helplessly in love. That is when he recognized his father (Elijah Muhammad) and he were one. He discovered that what he had been taught of God in man is the truth and he came into the knowledge of how it is done, how to replicate the process and also came into the understanding of the purpose for his life. His journey has been one to inform the world of the greatness of God coming in a person of Master Fard Muhammad and his raising of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad and how to obtain this gift that Allah has made available to man (Allah Himself). The way he lives his life in public and in private is a great testimony to his teacher and the God he serves (Master Fard Muhammad), he is the greatest example of man’s reconciliation to God.

EM: In your world travel with the HMLF, how would you relate patience with self-love as he continues to show both to our people?

RM: We are taught that patience is derived out of understanding, faith or love. It is difficult to have patience without one of the aforementioned. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is the embodiment of patience. He has consistently, for the last 58 years of his life, served black people in America and throughout the world. As I have watched him serve, I must bear witness to his love and patience for us as a people working day and night to change the condition of how we are living, only to find in some cases us degenerating to a worse state of being. Yet, he still continues to work.  It’s out of love and his faith in Allah that he knows his labor will not go in vain, and Allah’s promise to restore the Blackman to the top of civilization will come to pass no matter how dark it may seem. So he is very patient with us and he appears to be working effortlessly in accomplishing the goal. We thank Allah for such a wonderful example in The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan!!!

EM: While Sis. Ava Muhammad was visiting Houston, she made a profound statement that we as Black people are able to kill one another easily, because we are looking with the eyes of our former slave masters when we see another black person. This naturally made me think of the THEM’s words that every time you look at a Black man or woman you are looking into the face of God. How would you address this to a group of young brothers in street organizations who only know violence toward each other? How would you open them up to see each other and themselves properly versus how Sis. Ava described we view each other as our former slave masters did and do?

RM: Young black men need to see the example of the teachings of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad in the lives of those of us who believe. We have to build a new reality and invite them to take part. How do young men grow into manhood without examples?  The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan believes what The Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches about the Blackman. “When you’re looking at the Blackman you are looking at God”. So he is very mindful of his duty to God and shows gratitude by his service to black people and humanity. He asked all of us who believe in him to go out into the streets and serve the needs of our people sharing what we have learned.  My question to us who say we follow Him: What do we owe in service to young black men, and are we performing our duty?  Will we hide our light that God has given us in our Mosques or homes?  No!  We must go and get our people and share the teachings that heals and restores.

My message to young Black men; you are destroying what God has come to save. Wake up and except the truth about yourself and take on the responsibility to help change the world in which we live. The future is yours, God has already claimed you and declared he would make a nation out of black people. The enemy knowing this is working very hard to keep you distracted with illusions as his world crumbles by giving you false values to serve your vanity that they create.  Knowing you are without the means to buy and support your desires, you will promote and partake in your own destruction by participating in vices that are designed to railroad you to prison. I say, get up and go report to the local mosque or temple where The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is the instructor and participate in your development into God. Claim your stake in the new world (The Kingdom of God)!

EM: What influence did/does Bro. Salim (May Allah Be Pleased with him) have in your growth and development? What was it like working with him, and what are some words and experiences with our brother that stand out to you that have found a firm resting place in the person you are today?

RM:  Brother Salim, as a senior instructor in our class, had a great impact on my Islamic life. As a young F.O.I. under Bro. Salim’s tutelage we learn all the basic of being a man. For years I studied his coverage of The Principal with great admiration before becoming a member of the E-Team. Once a member of the E-Team, my journey began. It was fascinating to watch Bro Salim hold post, moving nothing but his eyes, and the way he would care for the Minister. Salim was indeed a jack of all trade, a master in his craft, and a man of many talents. Salim was such a great man, it took several members of the team to perform all the duties he carried out daily.  He was a Valet, Chef, EMT, Chauffeur, Peace Officer, Scuba Instructor, Lifeguard, Restaurateur, Maître D, Executive Protection Specialist, Captain, Father, Brother, Friend, and most of these jobs he performed while serving The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan.

It was a great joy to be with Brother Salim. The manner in which he expressed love to others through his service was a great example to all young Muslims. He was indeed his brother’s keeper. I remember when The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan gave him the name Salim and the words The Minister spoke. The Minister said everywhere they went Brother would make friends and keep peace so he now will wear the name Salim, which means maintainer of peace, peaceful, secure. In the words of Brother Salim “Keep Breathing AKH”(Brother)!!!

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): I wanted to interview you, because of the words you shared during the Black Weblog Awards that pertained to a part of your life I had no idea about; your life before Necole Bitchie. Can you please share what your life was like before you began blogging? What events or turning points led to you creating the well-known celebrity gossip blog?

Necole Kane (NK): When I was in school I thought I was going to be the next John Singleton or Mara Brock Akil who is the writer of Girlfriends. She and her husband have gone on to do major things since then, but those are the people I looked up to. I was very sure that I was going to move to California one day and be in the film industry. I took a chance one day, and I moved out to Detroit and I fell into an internship in radio. That’s how I got started in entertainment.

My life before blogging was me living in Detroit trying to get a job in a radio station and then going to New York to see about getting a job with a record label. That’s the hustle of anyone in the entertainment industry. They’re kind of like floating in the wind and waiting on an opportunity to present itself and working for different people. That’s a little bit of what I was doing before blogging.

EM: Yes ma’am, thank you. You made mention of losing your parents and the struggle with that as well as living with a few friends. Can you expound on those events and how it has contributed to your journey?

NK: I started blogging years after my parents passed away. I started it, because I was trying to get a job. I remember it was the Summer of 2007 and I kept interviewing for different positions in entertainment. I interviewed to be Tyra Bank’s assistant and Diddy’s assistant and applying to Sean John, Sony, Universal and every record label out there that summer. That kind of thing takes a hit at your self-esteem when you’re constantly going to these different interviews and not getting called back and not getting the job.

One day I was like, “I’m not sending out another resume. If someone wants me to work for them, they’re going to have to come find me.” I was tired of rejection. That’s how the blog came about. Since I wasn’t looking for jobs I kind of ran out of money (laughs). I had to go back home. When I was supposed to the online looking for jobs, I was actually creating the website (NecoleBitchie.com) and hoping for the best.

EM: What were your initial feelings towards celebrity blogging and the gossip aspect of it? Was that something you went after or did it just unfold that way?

NK: It’s weird, because when I first started I was doing celebrity blogging but I was doing a lot of blogging about myself as well. I felt like people were connecting to the story.

EM: Is there anyone that you greatly admire that you would like to interview that may not be a “traditional celebrity”?

NK: Oprah. I’ve always felt that she was a mega-celebrity. I would want to get business advice. She knows things. I think the Oprah Winfrey show started when she was 32 years old. I’m actually 33. I just want to know looking back now what she would say to her 32-year-old self starting the show and everything leading up to where she is now. She’s done so many things. It’s kind of hard to get that mentorship advice nowadays. Now you really have to just rely on getting on YouTube and looking at the people you want to be your mentors and looking at all of their interviews. It’s rare that you’re actually able to sit down with someone that you consider a mentor and ask them all of the questions you want to ask them about business.

EM: I would definitely agree with you on that one and I too would love to sit down and talk with her for the same reasons; the way she conducts her interviews as well as the different people she sits with.

Let’s go back to the Black Weblog Awards ceremony when all of your friends were speaking about you and how much they greatly admire you. I learned a lot about you. Your words that night were very inspiring and they resonated with me. In starting my own magazine in what some may think looks easy, it was a lot of work and I didn’t know that people were against or opposed to me doing it. Now I’ve opened up my own day spa…that was and still is a lot of work.

One of the things that you shared was, “Keep pushing and don’t let anyone steal your dream”. What difficulties did you have along the way of your journey, and what decisions did you have to make about the people in your life you had to let go of? What was that like for you? How were you able to listen to your own advice?

NK: To be honest when I first started, and I used to do this all of the time, I would isolate myself from everybody. I didn’t want to hear all of these unsolicited opinions of what I’m doing from other people. So I disappeared when I started my website. It’s funny, because I just spoke with Terrance J recently when we followed him for “A Day In the Life”. I said to him, “Terrance while you were struggling and sleeping on couches, were you in contact with your mom at all?” He said, “Not much”. It’s funny how we kind of withdraw from everybody especially when we’re in a struggle. We don’t want anybody to see us struggling. It’s kind of a pride thing. We don’t want to hear anyone tell us something that’s going to discourage us from doing something. So we kind of just go away. We disappear, and when they see us again we’re successful so people weren’t there for the ride…they just feel like it was an easy ride.

When I started my site I really didn’t have to cut people off but just withdraw from people and just focus on the vision I had. I know a lot of times when you tell people what you’re trying to do, especially if they’re not even in the field or it’s something brand new, it’s going to be discouraging. They don’t do it on purpose, they just don’t understand it. So it comes across as discouraging.

I had to have tunnel vision, cut everybody off for a second…I’ll be back around but I’m focused.

EM: You just reminded me of when I moved to Chicago for about six months.  I was going to what some would consider a very cold environment, it wasn’t like the South. They weren’t really warm. I remember I kept my relocation to myself until the week before I was leaving.

NK: Exactly! A lot of times I didn’t tell people when I was about to leave. They would just call me and I was like, “Oh, I’m in…this city…” and they were like “What! Why didn’t you…” I’ve never had a going away party, and it’s only because I don’t want to hear anyone’s opinion or questions, “Why are you going to move there? What is your plan?” I’m going to figure it out. I never had going away parties; you’d just hear about it later.

EM: A girlfriend of mine always says, “Don’t ask me how I’m going to do. Wait a little while and I’ll tell you how I did it”.

NK: Yes!

EM: How much did and does spirituality play a role in all of those decisions that you made and jobs that you were seeking out and with the blogging? How did it help you?

NK: I learned a lot about faith. I was going around knocking on all of these doors and they were closing, so I would think maybe this isn’t something I’m supposed to be doing. At one point I would just have to sit and wait for the answers and let faith guide me, and that’s why I’ve moved so many times. I feel it in my heart when it’s time, like a little nudge, like your time is up here; it’s time for you to go to the next place.

I was in Atlanta in the very beginning stages of my blog. In two years I could tell that they had me in a box and they wouldn’t let me get out of that box. Like, “We’re not going to let you be as big as you want to be. You can only grow this far and that’s it. You can’t get to the top”. It’s almost like crabs in a bucket. You’re trying to get to the top and there’s somebody pulling you down by the leg. That’s what it felt like. That’s why I knew I had to leave. Every time I’ve moved, I’ve advanced even further in my career. I don’t even think I’ve ever looked back and said, “Why did I move there”? It all was a piece of the puzzle that helped get where it is today.

EM: Awesome. You actually went into one of the next questions regarding a few things you’ve learned about yourself through all of those struggles and if you’ve ever felt any sense of regret. If so, how were you able to turn it into an opportunity to grow?

NK: I live by this quote, “If I could do it all over again I wouldn’t change what I did, I’d change the way I feel about what I did”. No regrets. I look back and I don’t really have any regrets. Everything has helped make me who I am today.

EM: Another quote that you gave the night of the awards ceremony, “I’ve been on a journey of just uplifting people and I’ve come along way”. What in particular was crossing your mind as you expressed those words? When you were discussing being a motivational speaker for women how do you envision yourself doing that?

NK: It’s funny, because I go back into my archives and my writing style was very honest but I was so ratchet (laughs). I didn’t have much etiquette. I didn’t have much life experience, I was young. I just liked the way I felt when I put a post up. Beat Face Honey, the makeup artist that Nicki gave an opportunity to, she was in that video that they showed at the awards show. Putting up inspiring stories like that and then seeing the comments and how many women say that they’re inspired by it and knowing how many women it touched that they feel like, “Oh my god my dream is within reach. If she did it, I can”. That’s so much more gratifying then putting up celebrity gossip stories and having my commenters arguing with each other and going in on each other. It makes me feel so much better. I’m actually using my platform for something good.

I do want to do motivational things. I can shut down my site today and say, “Hey I want to do motivational stuff”. Will my audience come with me? Probably not. Therefore, you have to hook them with what they’re coming for everyday, which is the celebrity entertainment news. Then you slide in the inspiring stories and empowerment. It’s like when you give a child a sandwich and you may want them to take their multi-vitamins, and you might chop it up in pieces and put it in the middle of the sandwich so that they don’t know that they’re getting that multi-vitamin.

EM: Right! Good teaching. With regard to the motivational speaking that you mentioned wanting to do with young girls and women, what do you have in mind? How do you see yourself doing that?

NK: I was going to do it through my website, XONecole. I was creating a website that was two-fold. It was going to be a lot of different stories on relationships, love, mentorship from different women. It was a platform for me to tell other women’s stories. Then we’d have events that we were going to do as well that would be empowering, female bonding.

A lot of times when we do these events we make the winners comes alone so that they have to bond with other women. You let them come with a friend they may not meet other people who are there. Everyone that wins has to come by themselves and then you meet people there. I loved when I came into the event we had Tamar Braxton, and by the time I got there all of the girls had grouped into different clusters. I knew that they had come alone, but they were in groups when I got there, which means they were meeting different women.

Everyone felt so empowered that night. It was women who were new mothers, women who had just gotten married or engaged or were new to New York. I had a way of picking them all. I was on a high for like two weeks after that event, and that’s the kind of energy I want in the life right now, especially getting older.

The energy you put out you get it right back. With that I have to be very careful in the way that I word my blogs now and the things we choose to cover. If I put that negative energy out there it’s going to come back to me and I’m going to be miserable for a week….maybe that’s why I’ve been laying on the couch all day today (laughs). Now I have to go onto my website and see what story was the culprit (laughs).

EM: I think last week was like that for me (laughs).

My last question for you is within another quote of yours.  You said, “You have to be patient. Things will happen when they are meant to”. I can certainly relate to this. I want to know from you if there were any moments that you felt that there were some things that weren’t meant to be. How were you able to use faith to feel your way through it? Did the thought of giving up ever cross your mind, and if so how did you overcome it?

NK: I’m dealing with that now. It’s not giving up on NecoleBitchie.com. I’m in the stages of creating another brand (XONecole), and I want this brand to grow and for it to grow I have to let go of the Bitchie, so it can grow. I’m creating a lifestyle brand to help me transition out of the celebrity gossip blog. With doing that you start dealing with different writers. The hardest part for me is to not micro-manage and to put other people in charge with everything; even my blog. Nothing publishes to my blog without me looking it at, me putting my finishing touches on it and me pushing “Publish”. My name is on that site; that’s me.

When I created this new brand I had to let go of control just a little bit, but it just wasn’t going the way that I wanted it to. That’s probably why I’m in a mental slump now. I do feel like giving up on my second brand that I’ve put blood, sweat and tears into all year long and spending so much money on. I spent way more money trying to launch this brand than I had with Necole Bitchie. It got to a point where now I’m sitting down and asking God, “Ok now you need to guide my steps, because maybe this isn’t what my next move is supposed to be and maybe I’m pushing it”. I am going through it right now. I’m in a stage now where I’m taking a step back and I’m just listening and waiting for clarity on what’s next. If that’s not next then what is it? I’m waiting for that sign. When it gets to the point where I want to give up I have to sit still sometimes and just listen. Sometimes we just go, go, go and we’re not really listening to our inner voice, we’re not listening to our heart and we’re not listening to that Higher Power.

EM: Beautifully said, and I wholeheartedly agree. I really commend you for having that approach.

NK: When I was living in New York, and I’ve moved every year since I’ve started my website, but I was in New York and I thought I was going to stay there. I got an office there and everything. It was coming to the time where my lease was about to expire, and I was looking for another place. When I say I came into every difficulty that I could run into while trying to stay in New York, I was like “It must not be meant for me to be in New York”. So I went to L.A. and I found a place immediately. It was smooth sailing and I was thinking it must’ve been meant for me to move to L.A. Maybe that’s where my brand it going to grow and expand, and things have been going well ever since I got here.

When there are too many obstacles I really step back and say, “Okay God is trying to tell me something. He’s really trying to tell me something”. I’m not in church every Sunday, but I definitely have a personal relationship with God, and I definitely believe in faith and I definitely listen.

EM: Thank you so much for sharing your journey with Hurt2Healing. Is there anything else you would like to add?

NK: I’m taking a break for a few weeks. I’m going to Europe and hopefully I’m able to get peace and listen to my inner voice and come back rejuvenated and go harder than ever.

EM: Thank you again Necole. May God continue to bless you on your journey with much success!

NK: Thank you for having me. I’m honored.

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): I would like to begin with a quote from Brother Jabril Muhammad out of his publication, “Is It Possible That the Honorable Elijah Muhammad Is Still Physically Alive???” He says, “Remember , the devil has built a religion (in fact, this entire world) on lies and half truths about Jesus”.

The whole world is awaiting the Messiah who is prophesied to come at a particular time under particular circumstances.

My question to you is who is this devil that Brother Jabril is speaking of, and what are some examples of how he is using religion to deceive the world about Jesus?

Nuri Muhammad (NM): Of course whenever we speak in terms of Satan, Devil, Iblis, Lucifer, the Dragon or the Serpent under the searchlight of the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, we don’t see those as ghosts, monsters or goblins. We understand that the Scripture was written in parables, metaphors and similes. Each of these labels or names are descriptions of a human being. Therefore, as the Bible says in 2 Thessalonians, “They shall not come except there be a falling away first…”. Look at the language, “…and the man of sin be revealed.” The father of sin has been in the world, but he’s been misrepresented by everybody as being a monster, a ghost, a goblin or some spirit. Yet, if the man of sin has to be revealed, this means that the masses of the people have not known the Devil or Satan for being what he really is. They’ve been looking under the ground, in the sky for some immaterial, superficial being when he actually is a human being. What we learn from the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is that God is a man and so is the Devil.

It should be very obvious that what Brother Jabril is saying in this statement is 100 percent Actual Fact, and the Scripture backs him up in what he is saying. In the Bible, in the book of Revelations, it reads that Satan deceived the whole world. Well the question is are Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus not in the world? If Satan has deceived the whole world, then everybody has been the victim of the touch of Satan. Therefore, what people call religion today shouldn’t be called religion, because it doesn’t meet up to the definition when you look at what each religion is striving to produce.

The goal of most religions, when you study them, is to turn the people who accept the religion into believers, worshipers, followers, saints, disciples, apostles or companions. However, the word religion in its etymological root is: re- meaning to do again and ligion– in Greek meaning to get to God. So religion is supposed to be a spiritual process that gets man back into oneness with God. Therefore, the goal with real religion is not to produce a saint, a disciple, apostle, worshiper, believer, follower or companion. The real goal of a real religion is the turn man into God. Hence, when you study religions all over the Earth as well as their goals and you study the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad as exemplified and explained by the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, you find that the Nation of Islam is the only group on the face of the Earth that really meets up to the definition of religion; getting back to God, becoming God. Our ultimate end is not to stop at discipleship or apostleship. Our goal is to meet with God, to become one with Allah (God) and to become gods walking among men.

I can’t speak for exactly who he (Brother Jabril) is talking to, but he sounds like he’s addressing what the Bible would call those principalities and the rulers of the darkness of this world. The spiritual wickedness that exists in high places. Not just the common, average, everyday do-bad devil in the streets. He’s dealing with the higher authorities of devil that has the ability to make domestic, foreign, political and religious decisions. They are the ones that have manufactured this system.

The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan said this, “The greatest deception in this world is to have the whole world looking back 2,000 years ago for the Messiah”. That is the greatest deception. Out of all of the lies that have ever been told to any human being on Earth; and we know that all lies go against the grain of the nature of the brain. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said that the brain cells were created to think right. Each lie told to the brain has a certain amount of destructive power attached to it depending upon the size of the lie. Well, what the Minister is telling us is that the most destructive, most powerful lie that destroys the brain is to have the world looking back 2,000 years ago for the Messiah.

Do you know to look that far back and to see accurately is impossible? Man only has 20/20 vision. That means that the human eye is only built to see 20 feet away, even in its healthiest state, and judge things accurately. Once you get to 30 feet, 40 feet, 50 feet then there becomes distortion. Well we know that from what we’ve been taught that those Scientists Who made Bible and Holy Qur’an, made one year of history for every one mile of the whole circumference of the planet. Therefore, to have somebody looking back 2,000 years spiritually for the Messiah is like asking somebody to look 2,000 miles backwards to judge an object properly. It’s too far away. The eye is not built to see that far, and the mind cannot even calculate. So, we live in a world where everybody has been misjudging who the Messiah is, when he’s coming and how he’s coming. Everybody believes in him, but nobody accurately conceives him until Allah (God) came in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad to give us that Knowledge.

EM: Yes sir, thank you very much!

My next question is why Jesus? Of all the Prophets and Messengers of God, there’s more confusion about Jesus especially revolving around his death. What is the significance and what is the purpose for so much confusion? How is it serving the Will of God?

NM: As Minister Farrakhan has taught us in multiple ways, the Adam that brought death into the world through sin represents the grafting of the Caucasian and them coming into existence. They brought sin into the world. The Scripture says, “By one man sin entered into the world, and by one man all will be reproved of sin”. Therefore, whenever you’re looking at Jesus you’re looking at the second Adam. Adam was the first physical replica of man. If people see Jesus as who he really is, then they become obligated to duplicate him as he really is, because he’s that second Adam.

To keep confusion about him is important, because as long as you can keep people looking at different persons or looking at different characteristics about Jesus in an improper way, then they will never be able to duplicate him as he is and allow him to be the second Adam he’s supposed to be.

The thing I would suggest to those who will read this interview and those in the world is that anytime you’re expecting someone to return that you’ve never met, the first thing you’re expecting that person that’s telling you who’s coming to get you or coming to be with you is a description. By the fact that he (Jesus) had hair like lamb’s wool, feet like brass burned in the oven, let’s us know that he’s a Black man.

Then when you look at the characteristics of Jesus and the workings of Jesus, we should be able to list those characteristics as a template and lay it over the top of whoever we’re thinking in modern times to be that Messiah figure. If he does not match those characteristics then he’s not the one, but if you find someone that matches them then you’re looking at him. In mathematics there’s a Law of Probability that says whenever you have twelve or more details in an object that matches the object you’re comparing them to, then you are looking at the same object just in a different space at a different time.

We as followers of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, challenge the world to take the function, workings, description and characteristics of Jesus and lay that over-top of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad or lay it over-top of the works of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, and I guarantee you can find twelve or more details. Jesus’ mother’s name was Mary. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s mother’s name was Marie – same name. It says in the Scripture that Jesus came among his own and his own received him not. How did we handle the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and how are we handling the Minister? He made the blind see, the deaf hear, the dumb speak, the lame walk and he raised the dead. Turn all of those physical healings in a spiritual reality, then look at the way the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan have done with the Teachings. We can keep going on and on and everything we read about Jesus we see manifest in the workings of the Minister and the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad. If there are twelve or more details that you find common in comparing in the Minister or the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad to Jesus, then by the Law of Probability in mathematics we can say we’re looking at the same object, just in a difference space and time. Therefore, these represent Jesus to us.

EM: Beautifully said! Thank you!

We’re taught that there are parts of the Bible that is considered seventy-five percent prophesy. How can one properly view or learn to view its contents and correlate it with what is taking place today? Why is it so important to be on time with that prophesy, and what is the drawback or consequences of misunderstanding the Time?

NM: Man, these are very good questions… The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad said in Message to the Blackman that the Bible is nearly two-thirds prophesy, which would make it about sixty-six percent prophesy and thirty-three percent history. What he did say was that seventy-five percent prophesy was the New Testament. Twenty-five percent of what we read about Jesus actually happened 2,000 years ago, and the other seventy-five percent is happening now.

If we’re going to use the Bible and turn it into some holy history book where everything we’re reading about happened 2,000 years ago, 4,000 or 5,000 or 6,000 years ago, and it happened in another country on another continent to another people, then it would be better for us to throw the Bible and the Holy Qur’an into a pillowcase and fight the Devil with the pillowcase. We can’t call the Bible the living Bible. Every church I’ve been to, they’ve referred to the Bible as the living Word of God; emphasis on the word living. Living means to be in existence at the present time. If it is in existence at the present time, we can’t afford to look at it as a history book telling us about what God did to people on other countries and other continents that look difference than us and not try to be able to relate that to the modern time. No. If we study it right we have to look at some of the signs and descriptions that tell us that God, Himself, didn’t want us treating it like an old history book.

The fact that we don’t know any last names of anyone in the Scriptures…what was Moses’ last name? You say, “Well Jesus’ last name was Christ”. That wasn’t his last name, that was his title! We don’t know the last name of Abraham, Solomon or David. If God was interested in us looking at this as history, then He would have wanted us to know the family that these people came from. The fact that the last names are not mentioned shows that God is more interested in us studying the function of the people than the family that the people came from.

We call Bible and Holy Qur’an “Scripture”. Scripture by definition means a part of a greater writing. There is more than we read in the Bible and Holy Qu’ran that makes up the Word of God. The 66 books of the Bible or 114 chapters of the Holy Qur’an does not match the great Wisdom of the All-Knowing. The Holy Qur’an says it like this, “If all of the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea with seven more seas added to it (were ink), the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise”. (31:27) Therefore, when you look at the amount of ink and pens as compared to water and trees that it would take to write the Bible or Holy Qur’an, all you would need is a twig and a puddle. Not all of the seas with seven more added to it with all the trees as pens. The Wisdom of Allah is that much bigger than the Bible and the Qur’an.

However, the word scripture also has in it, as a base word, script. A script by definition is a pre-recorded document that dictates actions in advanced generally for plays or movies. Long before the stage has been built for the play, long before the lights and cameras are on to film the movie, somebody wrote a script. The script tells the actors and the actresses what to do, what to say, when to do it, how to say it and how to do it. Well the Bible and Holy Qur’an are not scripts for plays or movies, these are scripts for life. Allah, out of His Mercy, has written thousands of years ago, in advance, what we were going to be experiencing today. Therefore, if you’re reading the Holy Qur’an where it says, “If believers say to you this, say this…”, what is He saying? He’s already seen down the line of time.

If two-thirds of the Bible is prophesy then look at the Qur’an. The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad told the Minister, “Two-thirds of the Book is for me and the other third is for another fellow. I’ll let that other fellow worry about his part”. I wasn’t that good in math, but I know that two-thirds plus one-third equals three-thirds, and three-thirds is the whole thing. Therefore, it’s the whole Holy Qur’an; two-thirds of it for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, the other one-third is for another fellow, meaning someone coming after him. To save time we’re going to go ahead and tell everybody that the other person is the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan!

If two-thirds was for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, the other third is for the Minister then all three-thirds of the Holy Qur’an is for us today. To look at the Scripture any other way is to violate the purpose for why God, Allah, revealed it. Out of His Mercy He gave us the strategy and a playbook of our Enemy, in both Books (Bible and Holy Qur’an), and He told us what to say, when to say it and how to do it; not so that we can make a good play or make a good movie, but so that all of us can live a good life.

EM: Powerful points!

With all of the above that you’ve shared and bridging the gap between how Scripture is made to look like history and bringing it into modern time, recall Peter who denied Jesus three times. What would that denial look like today towards the one who is in our presence right now representing the Messiah? What is the penalty of that denial?

NM: Out of the Mercy of Allah (God), He gives us an opportunity to study the Scripture, and we can actually pick what role we want to play in life. We have the opportunity to look and say, “Wait a minute, do I want to be an enchanter, a sooth-sayer, a magician, one of Pharaoh’s people or do I want to be with Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Caleb and the Children of Israel? Now what we get an opportunity to do is study the function of those people. The Qur’an tells us to travel the Earth and study the ends of those gone before us. Well it would cost a lot of money to travel all over the Earth and interview a bunch of people, but it doesn’t cost anything to pick up the Scripture and travel the Earth through Scripture and even travel through time and look at the ends of those who have gone before us. We have the opportunity to look at the Disciples of Jesus, see what they did of good and we can also see where they went wrong. Being the disciples of Jesus in this modern time, we have to be involved in self-examination, self-analysis that should lead to self-correction, especially when we find our way or characteristics matching any of the disciples that did not stand as strong as they should have stood during the time of the capture and the crucifixion.

For us to deny would mean that we are afraid, timid in our willingness to express that which has saved our lives and more important than that who it is that has saved our lives. If we are tested in the heat of Martial Law, door to door combat or whatever the enemy has coming for us in the future, or if the propaganda machine and the Dragon begins spewing his flood out, or if Allah (God) chooses to allow the Minister to be arrested, then after he is arrested the Scripture says this, “Satan desires the head of the woman but he could not get to her head so Satan bruised the heel of the woman.” Well the woman represents the Messenger of God. The head represents the Minister; he’s out front, he’s the brains, he’s thinking for the Messenger and for the Nation (of Islam). Yet, the heel is beneath and behind. What is beneath and behind in the Nation of Islam or in any movement are the followers of that movement. Satan knows that he is not going to be able to break the Minister’s resolve to accomplish everything that the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad desires to accomplish. He knows that he can’t break his (the Minister’s) will. Therefore, he (the Enemy) is not investing a whole lot of energy on breaking the Minister. He’s coming after the heel to see if he can bruise the heel, and that’s us.

We have to take advantage of this opportunity to study the history of those who were with Jesus during the time before the capture, before the crucifixion and then after resurrection. Let’s just stay in the expression of discipleship that was attached until after they accepted the resurrected Christ.

To be honest with you, the Minister said as it relates to prophesy, some prophesies cannot be changed. They are absolutely going to come true, but some prophesies are conditional. With those prophesies that are conditional, we have the opportunity to either do one of two things: either beat it or repeat it. All it takes to beat it is to look at what they did, how they went wrong and change the way we do it, and be prepared for whatever test they flunked when that test comes to us. He shouldn’t find any of the soldiers outside with the Enemy trying to get warm and too afraid. The same person that cut the ear off of the man; you were so zealous, so powerful, so strong, so bold while he (Jesus) was here. The Minister said this to me one day; he said, “The love that you all have to have for me is not a love for me in the presence, it is a love for me in the absence. That was the kind of love I had to have for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and you all have to have that same love”.

We have people in our Nation (of Islam) that we call the Pioneers that were here prior to 1975 that have so many actual facts and actual accounts of history where those who chose to deny the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and chose to allow the Nation (of Islam) to fall, many of them ended up in insane asylums. Some lost their minds and even took their lives or went back to being worse than what they were before they ever met the Teachings. So we should say in our minds I don’t want to repeat the history of the time that they captured and crucified Jesus, nor do I want to repeat the history of the time that when the Honorable Elijah Muhammad left that people actually went crazy. I don’t want to be in that number. I want to be in that number when the Saints go marching in.

EM: Yes sir, absolutely!

Thank you so much for this brilliant representation and explanation of Who is the Messiah! May Allah continue to bless you Bro. Nuri!

NM: All Praise is Due to Allah! Thank you!

Brother Nuri Muhammad is the Indianapolis, IN Representative of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan at Muhammad Mosque NO. 74. You are welcome to follow Brother Nuri on Twitter @Nuri1974 and Instagram @NuriM

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): It has been a few years since our last interview, so this is a much anticipated cover. A lot has taken place with you personally and professionally. Please catch us up.

Desiree Jordan (DJ):Peace, Sis. Ebony and all H2H supporters! I’m so glad to have this opportunity to speak with you again! Since the last interview, I can confidently (and concisely) say that I am in the era of the Phoenix (rebirth). I’ve grown tremendously – spiritually, artistically, personally, professionally. I am in the process of actively recognizing what God designed me to be… shedding away the ‘old’ and unusable parts of me, to access the truth within.

I am really proving to myself, exactly what I am fully capable of. At this time, I have a full-time job, and I teach an Inspirational Choir and two Songwriting classes to high school students on Fridays. I am creating new music (solo and collaboratively). I am mentoring other amazing artists. I am creating performance platforms for myself (live performances, and offering live-online performances for those who can’t physically make it to all of my shows). I am really digging deep into myself, uncovering thousands of truths I’ve repressed for some time, having personal/spiritual Revelations on a regular basis. I’m facing up to and overcoming my fears.

I’ve done a ton of work on myself, and I’m not yet finished. And I’m so excited to share it all with you!

EM: What have the various transitions been like for you as an artist as the industry continues to transition as well? What are some of the challenges and gratifications with that kind of growth?

DJ: I realized that over the years, watching the entertainment industry transition and trying to find a place for myself within both the industry AND its transition, is way more difficult for me to do, as I’m going through my own personal transition, every day.

I’ve stopped measuring my success against the standards of the industry, and I’m fully immersing myself in every bit of creativity I can muster out of myself. This is the best decision I’ve ever made… and for this simple reason: every industry (entertainment, political, technology, fashion, etc) is ALWAYS, ever-evolving. And it would be impossible for me to be the best and most authentic DESIREE JORDAN I could be — if I were paying close attention to and adhering to the standards of other industries, outside of the industry of my own art. I believe that life will present challenges in all forms, but every single situation, opportunity, and even the opportunities-missed, are gratifying. Growth is essential to me, and finding the peace within to grow on my own terms has always been more important to me than fitting in a ‘box’ for money or success.

EM: Tell me a little bit about your new image. What sparked the drastic change? How important is the image of an artist in terms of maintaining longevity and appeal?

DJ: Although I mentioned that I’ve stopped watching the “industry,” I do pay close attention to the evolution of artists individually. I do think it’s important for an artist to reinvent himself or herself, but I believe it should be a reinvention of the art for art’s sake, as opposed to trying different marketing ploys to stay relevant in an ever-evolving day and age.

In the Fall of 2013, I cut all of my hair OFF! All those curls… GONE! I ask myself, “Des, why did you want to do that in the first place?!” And my heart’s response was that I was just ready for change. Just wanted something new. After my birthday in September of 2014, I died my hair BLONDE, and began to shape my hairstyle into a Mohawk! It was a statement of expression for me. It was me finally doing something that *I* wanted to do… since childhood, I’ve always wanted a Mohawk, because it was just funky and cool, and I finally had the guts to do it! And a year later (Fall 2015) – following this idea of the Phoenix within me – I died my hair a Burgundy and Cherry Red ombre. Like FIRE! My spirit is on fire! In a great way. The drastic changes are a part of me redefining who I am.

I look back at my modeling and music photos and see my personal evolution via my hairstyles, and I realize that my hair has paved the way for me to fully embrace any and everything I desire to be. There is freedom in letting go and embracing the unknown. And because I was brave enough to change my outward appearance, I subsequently felt the courage to go within and decipher exactly whom I want to be, and what I want to present myself as, in my art! The music that I’ve been working on is different from the music I have put out in the past. Like my hair, my growing freedom with expression of sound intrigues me.

Although the changes in my appearance keeps the audience interested, I find that the evolution of style is more about the artist, than the audience. For example, Patti LaBelle… That beautiful and talented woman has had more hairstyles over the years that we could count! However, it was a transition of both her musical style and her personal style (as both aspects evolved with the times). We don’t really care what Patti’s hair looks like, as long as she’s SANGIN’, right?!

EM: (Laughs) Right!

Throughout your moments of growth and development, what was most important to keep the same?

DJ: HUMILITY. As people inwardly grow, they can appear outwardly as cocky and arrogant, self-serving and selfish, and beyond. I believe an important constant is to stay humble. People will have all kinds of names for what they don’t understand… “Diva,” “brand new,” the list goes on and on. But as long as I approach my relationships, my interests and my art with humility, what people think ultimately doesn’t matter. I believe the humility keeps us closest to God. But humility should not be confused with being subservient. Those are two entirely different matters. You can be a humble person, with all of the confidence and talent and drive in the world, but do not let anyone run over you. There is immense strength in Humility.
EM: I understand you took some time away from music. Why was this important? What have you learned about yourself as an artist coming out of it?

DJ: I believe an artist is never really away from their art. I’ve been pretty “quiet” in terms of performing and promoting my music when the seasons transitioned into Fall (2015), as I understand and have a respect for how Fall/Winter can be an interesting season of transition and recalibration. I look back over the entirety of 2015, and can see how hard I’ve been pushing not only my latest single, “Misunderstood,” but also performing and promoting myself much more than I ever have, and I’ve found it necessary to quiet my presence, as I rebuild, re-energize my art. I’m still very much working on my music behind-the-scenes. I’ve found this quiet-time to be incredibly important as I move forward into becoming exactly the woman I want to be, and who and what I know God created me for.

EM: What was it like returning to the studio and recording tracks after your sabbatical? 

DJ: I spent a year in the studio, working on a project and learning so much about the voice as an instrument in the booth, versus how the voice can be used on-stage. “Misunderstood” is a product of that project, and after having spent that time, I felt tremendous artistic growth. During my latest (outward) sabbatical, I am finding that as I spend time in the studio, working on my own music and collaborating with other artists, I approach music differently now. More freely, and more assertively. I am a singer. I have been for a long time. And it’s refreshing to hear the growth.

EM: What are you most excited about in this segment of your work, brand and artistry?

DJ: I’m excited to be producing my own music now! The ability to play the piano, and having directed church choirs for over 10 years, as well as directing a band to accompany me on stage, is an asset to me because I know what sounds I’m looking for. It’s been a little bit of a struggle to find what ‘lane’ I’m in (musically), because I grew up on Gospel and R&B, but I truly love EDM (electronic dance music), Dubstep, and a host of other genres, so being brave enough to play around with the sounds that move me – without thinking about what genre it would fit into – is beyond exciting to me!

I have been branding myself via social media with the hashtag, #IAmDesireeJordan. This concept was suggested to me around the close of 2014, and I adopted it, not knowing it would change my life forever. As I go deeper into myself, my art, my purpose, I’ve learned that the words “I AM” are the two most powerful words that could ever be uttered. “I AM,” is God. As author David Allen put it, “Your I AM-ness, your Consciousness, is the way in which you change your world. Whatever you attach to I AM, you become.” In declaring I AM DESIREE JORDAN, I am affirming that which I feel myself to be… a unique and epic individual, one-of-one. I AM whatever I want to be, and #IAmDesireeJordan encompasses all of that. It’s very exciting to not limit myself to just a musician, or just a model, or just a teacher/mentor, or just a friend. I Am, That (all of what I wish to be)! I Am!

EM: What are your thoughts regarding activism as an artist and utilizing your platform of music to speak out against injustice? Similarly to what we’ve seen before with hip hop and r&b artists creating songs like ‘Self-destruction’ and ‘What’s going on’…the atmosphere hasn’t changed, yet, there aren’t many artists making conscious music like that. From the inside, why do you think that is the case with more than enough material to do so?

DJ: GREAT QUESTION!! The following is strictly my own opinion:

It’s hard to take a stand on/speak out against injustices when you’re on someone else’s payroll. Entertainers/artists can be at a disadvantage when a label is paying for the marketing and promotion of their art, because someone can always executively decide that a song speaking against injustice can’t or won’t make the tracklist of an album. The label can determine what image and/or message it wants to promote and represent. It can simultaneously silence exactly what it doesn’t want US to hear.

I also think that we, as a people, are struggling not to get lost in the sweeping notion of “self-importance” that social media and the industrial age have us focused on. Whereas the focus during the “What’s Going On” age was more community-based, we are in an age of ‘selfies’, with unlimited access to promoting ourselves individually. And although we have our serious initiatives like #JusticeOrElse and #BlackLivesMatter, there is still a greater push that needs to be made, to bring us back together as a community of PEOPLE – not just a community of hippie artists with a separate community of music enthusiasts or a community of spiritually-awakening people. We are all one.

That being said, I personally have not yet released music speaking on injustices, because for me, it’s a difficult subject to write about. I am, however, in process of finishing a song I’ve started, called “Only Love,” which brings to light that in these tumultuous times, only Love can save us. Stay tuned for that!

The last thing I will say is that with the advent of the Internet, the sheer volume of music that is available at our fingertips also presents a disadvantage, because I am positive that many ‘underground’ (or unsigned artists) truly HAVE voiced an opinion on injustices… we just don’t have the same marketing and promo to highlight those songs that can help bring us back together.

EM: What can listeners anticipate from you in this upcoming project? Also how are you giving back to your existing base of supporters and fans?
DJ: Listeners can expect to always #KeepGoodMusicAlive with me! I’m actually working on a few different projects simultaneously. The point of this is not to be scatter-brained and all-over-the-place, but rather to just put material out there for supporters of this #KGMA crusade to vibe with. 2016 is going to be very exciting!

Free music is available right now on www.Soundcloud.com/IAmDesireeJordan – including audio recordings of live performances, AND studio work with collaborations with fellow artists. The point of it all is to inspire. Video projects are in the works, self-produced music, collaborative music, and so on and so on.

EM: What upcoming appearances, tours, releases are in store for 2016?

DJ: We plan, and God plans. That being said, I’m planning to do a mini-tour, and a number of performances across the country. But what God has in store for me is still a gift that I’m unwrapping every day… I believe much more will happen that I’m not even aware of yet.

Readers, if you’re not already on my e-blast list, sign up now! Visit AND Bookmark www.DesireeJordan.com. I keep my upcoming events current on the site, as well as links to the rest of my Internet presence.

And please, follow me on social media:
Instagram: @IAmDesireeJordan
Facebook: @IAmDesireeJordan
Soundcloud: @IAmDesireeJordan
YouTube: @IAmDesireeJordan

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

DJ: I am forever grateful and thankful for the platform that Hurt2Healing Magazine has offered to me, AGAIN!… with special thanks to Sis. Ebony Muhammad, a beautiful human being whose work is tremendously helping men and women in the melanated community. Although I’m not an official ‘member’ of the Nation of Islam, I have always been a supporter and fellow believer in the God that we all serve. It is an honor, and a privilege, to share my art, opinions, and dreams with anyone reading this, and I pray that at least 1 person is positively affected and inspired by my story and journey.

Keep Good Music Alive, my friends! May you be blessed!

Much love Sister Ebony!

EM: Same to you Sis! Thank you so much for your time and congratulations on EVERYTHING! May Allah continue to bless you!

Check out a live performance by Desiree Jordan as well as her official video to “Misunderstood”!

Silky Slim, Radio Show Host

[Publisher’s Note: The below is the full interview conducted with Rick Ross from the October 13, 2016 gathering in Atlanta with other leaders in Hip Hop Culture that was featured in The Final Call Newspaper.]

Ebony S. Muhammad: What was it like hearing from the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan tonight and what stood out the most for you?

Rick Ross: Every time I had the opportunity and blessing to sit down and get wise words from the Minister, he speaks with so much confidence. You could be a young Black boy who grew up without a father and not know what that role is and not know what the position is supposed to look like, but he most definitely gives me that experience.

When you walk into a room and you see the Minister seated and his words still command that attention and it is still giving you that energy and synergy while he’s seated, it speaks volumes. The President can’t do that. They can’t debate sitting down.

Ebony S. Muhammad: Yes sir! What part of his words have you put into action?

Rick Ross: The home that I purchased, that was formally Evander Holyfield’s estate, and it was a decision I made after having a discussion with the Minister. I was questioning that move and he said, “That’s land brother. I would never second guess land and the investment in land”. So I did it, and it was one of the best investments thus far. My admiration and my respect for the Minister goes beyond these words that I’ve shared these last few seconds.

Ebony S. Muhammad: What do you hope other artists take away from their experience of hearing and seeing Minister Farrakhan?

Rick Ross: Anytime our brothers and sisters get under the same roof I feel we become that much more closer to each other. It’s time for us to really hold each other’s hands.

When he talked about squashing beefs, I respected his whole conversation on that tonight. He made that the focus. We can’t do a lot of things at once, and that is most definitely the priority of supporting each other instead of killing each other. Let’s put the guns down and stop the violence. So when I look down the front row and see Jermaine Dupri next to me, 2 Chainz next me and Maurice behind me, we’re all on that same page walking around with that same gaze in our eyes. We know that possibility is going to be hard, but we know that the possibility is there.

Ebony S. Muhammad: Those are some powerful words and I pray that other artists have the same mentality. Thank you for your time dear brother, and may Allah bless you all with success in this Cultural Revolution!

Rick Ross: Thank you Sis, God bless!

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): A major congrats to you on your accomplishments in film! You’ve been featured in four films this year already including Baywatch with The Rock and No Regrets with Brian White and Monica Calhoun. With nearly 15 years in cinema under your belt, what do you believe has been one of your greatest accomplishments both personally and professionally thus far?

Amin Joseph (AJ): First off, I would like to thank Hurt 2 Healing magazine for interviewing me. I’m excited to get to know your audience.

My greatest accomplishment thus far in the film and television industry is producing and starring my own action film Call Me King released in 2015. It can still be found on Netflix. Personally, I’m always evolving and filled with gratitude for each moment of sound mind, body, and spirit. That, in and of itself is an accomplishment to me.

EM: How did you become interested in acting? What film do you consider your “big break” into cinema, and what has it been like seeing yourself on screen?

AJ:  I became interested in acting at a very young age doing school plays and watching television and movies with my family. I don’t really consider anything a “big break” as I view the entire career as a process, like a flow. Some days or some years are better than others, but the goal to make quality entertainment stays the same.

EM: What principles and core values were you raised with that you consciously took with you in your profession? How have they been a contrition to your growth and success to date?

AJ: Principles and core values are very important to me, although I realize the industry or certain projects may not always align with my code. That does not deter me. I think it is very important to know who you are and what you stand for. There isn’t enough ink for the many lessons my father, mother, and community (Harlem) have bestowed upon me. It made me the man that I am today. However, I am also aware that sometimes for my own personal development I must not be afraid to question my own beliefs. In short, being punctual, being a man of my word, and being an enthusiastic giver to my fellow artists are hardcore values I correlate to my success.

EM: What aspects of this industry surprised you the most, both in a positive way as well as disappointments?

AJ: What surprised me most about the industry? Perhaps, I was naïve to think that artists have the best interests of each other in Hollywood. Now it could be because of the competitive nature, spawned out of the perception of limited opportunity and the frequency of that competition. But, the lack of Black corporations, entrepreneurs, distributors, and financiers is abysmal. Although Hollywood isn’t a Black American construct, we’ve played the game long enough to have better results. I’m always a person that can be reached to move the needle and community forward.

EM: I’m glad you brought that up. There has been a lot of focus on diversity in Hollywood, mostly the lack therefore. As a Black man, what challenges have you encountered concerning the various roles you’ve auditioned for and did not land?

AJ: Yes in recent years there has been a frantic push for diversity. I have benefited as an actor most recently as some of the bigger networks have profited from a more multi-cultural platform. Personally, I think diversity is cool, however, I rather ownership. As a filmmaker and an actor that believes in empowering filmmakers of color, why would I need to be the diverse token in something that wasn’t meant to portray my sensibilities? That’s not exciting and refreshing. I much rather see Black producers and directors own their content and distribute directly to the consumer enjoying the integrity and fruits of their labor.

EM: Absolutely! So understanding how film impacts various trends, life imitating art, are there any particular roles that you are determined to avoid or turn down? If so which types of roles and why?

AJ: Choice is a powerful thing. There are no victims. As an artist, I’m first open to possibility. That being said, there’s certain things that I’m not going to do. It really depends on the level of consciousness that I have when approached with any said project. Where am I in my life? What is my spiritual stance of the moment? These things have changed over the 25 years I’ve envisioned this profession. I’m sure it will continue to evolve.

EM: To be very frank, there has been a surge in roles that I’ve seen mostly Black men play that are either incredibly disrespectful to women,  emasculating, or lacking substance in general compared to their white counterparts. For instance Dr. Boyce Watkins recently spoke on the increased amount of Black men in film who are made to wear dresses and portray feminine roles compared to the number of white male actors. This also goes for Black female actors acquiring roles that seem to degrade and over sexualize her or paint her as the bitter/angry Black woman compared to their white counterparts or other ethnicities in general. Being on the inside, what has it been like for you and for your fellow actors facing challenges like these? How do you navigate these realities?

AJ: I’ve played saints, I’ve played demons. There’s no amount of money that can get me to do something that I don’t want to do and there’s no lack of money that will prevent me from doing something I want to do. In such a visual medium I understand why actors receive praise as well as critique for their choices. There aren’t many jobs where accountability, believability, the choice of role, historical context, current events, and award nomination all fall under the scrutiny of a passive, somewhat informed, audience. I am not of any expectation that entertainment, not created of my own hand, should by default enrich my soul. With that perspective, I challenge audiences not to consume the content.

I would assume an actor of a religious faith would deny playing a role against their defined code just as the audience member of the that same faith wouldn’t want to consume that entertainment. But that is me only speculating. The truth is I am only accountable for my own decisions. In my opinion, there are no limits to Black roles other than the limitation we are putting on ourselves. No matter negatively or positively perceived no one is forced to play a role.

EM: In a recent publication written by Dr. Wesley Muhammad entitled ‘Understanding the Assault on The Black Man, Black Manhood and Black Masculinity‘, he discusses how Black men who are feminized are seen as non-threatening and weak to white heterosexuals, thus easy to control. In film we know how powerful representation is and to continuously put out the image of weak Black men is liken unto killing the natural essence of God in him who is strong, protective, fearless, intelligent, courageous, and powerful. What are your thoughts?

AJ: It’s vital to keep my individual integrity. However, I’m always aware of the reality of me being a Black man in America and in Hollywood. See, I have made a film independently financed out of my own pocket for my people and they didn’t even go see it as much as these mainstream programs you speak of. On top of that I risk, if you will,  being ostracized by mainstream Hollywood. Quite honestly, I don’t have time to fight emasculating images coming from other content creators, regardless of their agenda. I spend my time trying to trick my own audiences into seeing positive, soulful, feminine, and masculine images of their own likeness. It’s so easy to talk about what’s wrong and what the white man is doing, but my question is who wants to finance and advertise my next film?

That being said, the examples that you are speaking of are the reality of this country. It affects every Black performer in entertainment and away has. As mentioned before, I have a film that I made in 2015 with an all Black powerful cast. An action film with Black men and Black women being treated with dignity, and when examples are of them being treated otherwise, the offenders pay the price.

EM: Please correct me if I’m wrong, but there seem to be few Black filmmakers to create roles for Black actors that are respectful, dignified and strong. Mark Harris, whom you are currently working with, is one of those filmmakers. What has it been like working with him and his style/approach to Black roles in film?

AJ:  I agree Mark Harris is a brilliant filmmaker that is dedicated to promoting a positive and creative narrative of our people each time at the theater. I don’t agree that there aren’t a lot of people like him though. If audiences search for Black content creators the way they do for exclusively released designer shoes, all of our content creators would be billionaires. There are plenty of Black filmmakers on every continent of this planet always creating and releasing new content. Unfortunately, some label these productions and content as less than or inferior and thus they have a lack of audiences.

Back to Mark, it’s always a pleasure to collaborate with him. It’s easy when you have the same vision and your collaborator has your back. Mark and I share a similar outlook on entrepreneurship, quality, efficiency, and humility among many other things. I’ve been lucky enough to work with him twice. I feel we have a knack for portraying Black men that are well-rounded with depth together.

EM:  What message would you offer aspiring actors who just want to get their foot in the door, how to be patient without compromising?

AJ:  Well this is my favorite part. What would I tell aspiring actors? Know your craft better than you know your hobby. Say if basketball is your hobby, most would be able to name all of the NBA teams, but if you ask the average actor to name 29 studio executives they ALL come up short. Train until you become insane and that’s when the brilliant stuff starts happening. I personally don’t believe in compromise so make bold choices.

EM: Awesome advice! Thank you very much for your insight and for your perspective on ownership in film. May Allah bless you with success in your craft and to inspire others.

AJ: Same to you sister. Thank you for the opportunity to share with your audience!

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM):  It is very apparent social media has a serious stronghold when it comes to promoting a message, creating a movement, and generating business especially for entrepreneurs. However, one very interesting element of social media is the power and attractive pull of imagery.  

You are actually tapping into all of the above elements through beautiful photos of yourself modeling modest attire on Instagram, which is an image-driven platform. 

Before we get into that, please share a little bit about yourself, your upbringing and how you became passionate about fashion and modeling?

Neelam Hakeem (NH): My name is Neelam Hakeem. I chose the name Neelam for myself at the age of 12 when my father came home one day and said that he’s converting from Christianity to Islam. He legally changed our last names from our slave name and gave me a choice to change my first name if I choose to convert as well. This showed me the power of choice, and that whatever change you make in a moment can define you for the rest of your life.

I picked one name from a list of holy/Muslim names based off how it looked to me and most of all its meaning (achiever, blue gem). That’s one name, one word. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then if I choose to present myself a certain way, I feel that I’m choosing to wear all of the beautiful names at once.

As far as my passion for fashion, I’ve always worked in retail and, like the typical girl, I like to dress nice for a good price. I always say you can’t buy style, so if you can make a great fit for cheap you got it. I’ve never considered myself a model, and honestly still don’t. In my opinion with the way social media is set up, everyone is kind of a model, at least on a good day.

EM: On April 1, 2017 you launched the rebranding your Instagram page to reflect the fashion side of yourself. What sparked the shift?

NH: I’ve always struggled with covering my hair and modest dress due to my love for cute hairstyles and clothes I used to feel was a must.  I thought that covering modestly took away from the “fashionable” looks I use to go for. My opinion drastically changed on #MuslimWomensDay.  On that day I looked through the hash tag becoming completely spellbound by the beautiful Muslim women and girls who slayed, modestly. It was at that moment that I decided to commit to modest fashion.  I also wanted to possibly be an example, like the women who inspired me, so I decided by Allah’s Grace to try to push and promote my modesty decision. I’ve received so much love by Allah’s Grace from Muslim and non-Muslim women around the world, and it inspired me to keep striving to continue. I now know modesty is real beauty!

EM: In my humble opinion, you have collided with a major domino effect of other Muslim women on social media promoting a genre of beauty that is being celebrated on major magazine covers. Halima Aden who was recently featured on Vogue and Allure Magazine as “The face of things to come”. Also Ibtihaj Muhammad, the Olympic fencer, who has been featured on various magazines and newspaper covers. Even Rihanna, who doesn’t profess to practice Islam but has been featured on the cover of Harper’s Bazzar wearing Muslim attire in one of her most beautiful photo shoots to date.

What does this surge in modest fashion, Muslim models and covering beautifully with style say about the direction of the standard of beauty that was once considered to reflect the complete opposite?

NH:  I feel that modest fashion has always been beautiful and an unstoppable force. I believe those at the top know that there is a huge growing market for this and ultimately want to control it so that they can profit off of it. The positive part is that this beautiful style is being presented more for women and girls to feel beautiful about them self through the representation.

On the flip side, those who ultimately control the market care only about money and will not hesitate to have us in modest fashion in spring and then convince us that we are liberated by taking it off in the summer time if its profitable. To me it’s more important that you stay true to yourself regardless of what the market is pushing.

EM:  Being a citizen in the Nation Of Islam and a student in the MGT-GCC (Muslim Girls Training & General Civilization Class), how has social media enabled you to connect with other Muslim women interested in modest fashion from all over the world? How have aspects of being a MGT opened ways to promote sisterhood? For example the collaboration you are doing with Ruma B.

NH:  On #MuslimWomensDay I followed many Muslim women and girls who are and have been modest giants in the social media world. I was shocked by the love and support I received after I made the change on my page. Its beautiful, because it’s all becoming a growing family that constantly inspires you. That’s the crazy thing about social media. Most of these girls I’ve never met in my life (with exception of a few), but you feel like you know each other.

Being an MGT has taught me sisterhood with women outside of your blood. So when I talk with other Muslims and women of color, I talk to them as sisters. Thus @Rumastyles who lives Detroit and is Bengali running for Jet Set magazine, I support her and all Muslim women to the fullest. Being in the Nation teaches you about supporting each other. So my support for them and their brands allows them to realize there is no threat just love! Most of them have beautiful spirits to match their outside beauty.

EM:  The rise in Muslim women showcasing beauty and style is definitely getting the attention of the world, especially because it contradicts what the controlled media has projected of us. What do you see coming out of this shift? How do you see yourself contributing to what appears to be much bigger than an individual person but a world wide sisterhood and movement against the outright lies and the false beliefs that Islam oppresses its women and girls?

NH:  I believe the skies the limit. We are dynamic and intelligent, and contrary to what most people think, Islam liberates the God given talents of a woman. I believe we will see a Muslim woman become the “Beyonce” of singing, the “Denzel Washington” of acting,  an “Einstein”,  a “Barak Obama”, etc.

I’m just enjoying myself keeping my mind and spirit open to endless possibilities.

EM: What has been some of the feedback you’ve received online regarding your fashion style? What have the women who are not Muslim with you? Who are a few of your favorite modest models of all time and of present time?

NH:  The feedback has been a tremendous blessing. Different brands are constantly sending me items to style and promote. I’m featured on many brand and modest fashion pages, some with millions of followers. Best of all it is becoming profitable to promote for different companies. Some of my biggest surprises are the non-Muslim feedback. A county singer, Mickey Guyton,  who’s single is on the county charts, posted me as her WCW, which had me speechless. I’m getting brands that have nothing to do with Islam whose followers have been very sweet. Also, my old high school friends have been very supportive with my change.

Some of my favorite modest models are: Mother Tynnetta Muhammad, @feeeeya (Saufeeya Goodson) @chinutay  @Shahdbatal  @_enimsay (Yasmine Simone) @rumastyles @falieshagomezz  @marwaatik and @aaliyah.jm

EM: One thing I hear said among some women is the “If you got it, flaunt it” mentality.

The buzzwords we hear or read about are “liberated” or “free” or “independent” or “modern” or “feminist” and I’m sure there are more. How has society so wisely manipulated women, unbeknownst to them, into believing flaunting herself uncovered makes her independent and modern and a feminist?

NH:  I feel like what sad about it, is the way they make you look like if you are covered, as if you are oppressed or you aren’t free. They push that if you take your clothes off you’re free, and if you don’t take your clothes of your not free. That sounds pretty dictating. That’s dangerous for women and girls, because we often have insecurities. You want to be loved, pretty, noticed and admired. So the same people that dig on your insecurities and put up images that make you feel bad about yourself are the same people that come with the answer to liberate you. Liberation is not putting yourself out there for people to validate you. Liberation is a personal decision you make to yourself, where you can look at yourself in the mirror and be pleased with yourself the way you are.

EM: Many of our women and girls learn to base the standard of beauty on what is on TV. Also what their favorite hip-hop artists convey about women through their music and videos. What words would you like to share with women and girls who may believe they are beautiful or pretty only when uncovered? How would you address the subject of respect, self worth and self love to those who see women praised and glorified on “reality” shows?

NH:  If you feel that way it’s because of something external that is telling you that, and made you believe that lie about yourself. You are what you believe you are. Your physical makeup is beautiful, but you truly don’t know yourself if you think that’s all you got. What makes us superior over all of the living species on our planet is our mind. We can’t run as fast as a cheetah, or fly like a bird, but our mind is unparalleled. To limit yourself to your physical makeup is to restrict all of that which makes you most powerful.

“Reality” TV isn’t real. Even if it was, if you take a second and analyze the men those women attract as oppose to someone like Michelle Obama, you would see a big difference. The more you obtain knowledge of self and God, the higher your self esteem and self love will rise, and you will carry yourself as the magnificent being you are. You will also attract all the great things you deserve.

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

NH: A gift is best served wrapped! Stand out and don’t go with the norm. Did you know that Rihanna started following Muslim beauty blogger @sabinahannan. Mystery and virtue is attractive in a world that lets it all hang out.

EM: Yes ma’am! Beautiful words to live by! Thank you for sharing your journey with modesty and fashion with us! May Allah continue to bless you with great success. 

{Be sure to follow Neelam Hakeem on Instagram for more of her beautiful and modest fashion!}

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): I want to thank you for sharing the testimony regarding faith that you gave towards the end of your message the other week entitled, “Who has the courage to follow Farrakhan?”

Wesley Muhammad (WM): All praise is due to Allah. Thank you.

EM: You are not the only one that has had those type of questions relating to faith. You opened up about what you described as a tear in your spiritual garment, regarding where Allah, Master Fard Muhammad, intervenes in our affairs on an individual basis, aside from His anointed Servants. You said, “I didn’t see myself as being on the radar of the Lord of the Worlds.”

What was it that caused you to feel that way and draw that conclusion?

WM: Well, again, partly my path and partly the way my mind actually works. By path I mean I was an atheist before Islam. I was anti-religion as an intellectual. When I did come to Islam, it was through the Five Percenters, and the Five Percent Nation is anti-religion. We think differently about religious matters. We tend to need more demonstration of a point of a religious matter than most religious people. So I already had that predisposition to need greater demonstration of faith matters. That’s what it is. Faith matters. Matters that have no empirical proof, but we have to have faith in their regard.

After 28 years of critically engaging this teaching, I’m pursuing religion with a totally academic perspective. I bear witness that there are still matters that are a matter of faith. We just cannot prove them, and those are very valuable matters of faith. But in my earlier stages, those matters of pure faith, I needed a more robust demonstration of them. And one of those matters was, “Is the God, Whom I acknowledge as Master Fard Muhammad, interested in the affairs of the little believer?” Life’s challenges makes all of us ask the question, “Where is God in our life?” And for me I needed mathematical or critical demonstration of it. We would bring such questions to our pastors or ministers, “Where was God in our life when this happened?” We bring those to our pastors and we get the pastoral answers. We get the “foot prints in the sand” poem type of answers, but for me as an atheist and Five Percenter, that just was never persuasive to me. They weren’t real helpful to me. Those pastoralisms weren’t helpful to me. I needed something more concrete to make my religion make mathematical sense on a personal level. On a global level it made all the sense in the world. Master Fard Muhammad, He is Master of all of these planets and life forms that are on all of these planets. He’s the Master of them, so He’s very pre-occupied, in other words.

So I did not, I could not telescope the God into my personal life, not intellectually. Not in a way that was intellectually satisfying to me. So that was my blind spot. I needed demonstration of His intervention in my affairs, and on a critical thinking level I did not feel that I was able to point to convincing proof to me. Even though, of course, they were there all the time, but where I was in my thinking I could not point to demonstrable proof that He was intervening in my affairs all while He is protecting His Messiah against the most power government in the world, and marshalling the forces of the other civilizations of the planets to come against the enemy. He has big ticket responsibility. I was looking for and I needed more convincing evidence in the midst of all of that He even had time to consider my affairs.

EM: You answered that so beautifully, and you answered the second question regarding what evidence you were  in need of that you weren’t receiving. Thank you for going right into that.

This next question is regarding your research and your doctoral dissertation revolving around the reality of God in Him being a  man. We know that…well I’ll speak for myself, because I have your books; I know that there’s no deficit in your knowledge, but how and when did you realize…

WM: Well we all have deficits in our knowledge. We all work with a marginal merit. The only one who does not work with a marginal merit is the Messenger of God. Anything short of revelation, has a marginal merit.

EM: Yes sir, thank you for your correction. Allow me to say it like this in the context of this question: How did you and when did you realize that there was a deficit in your faith compared to your level of knowledge? 

WM: That was always a nagging question for me. It followed me and it nagged me. I’ll tell you this if I can share it.

EM: Yes sir, go ahead! 

WM: There’s this experience. There was this Summer between one of my semesters. I was a poor, very poor student. So eating and finding the next meal was a task. One time I went up to a brother’s house, who was a F.O.I., and he happened to have a fish fry. And he happened to have enough for myself and my brother who I came with and who was my Five Percenter teacher. I hadn’t or didn’t want to join the mosque yet. There was the discussion about praying over the food. Obviously, the Muslims were praying. I was inclining towards the Muslims, but I was there with my teacher, who was a Five Percenter, who gave his reason why not to. So I conceded to his reasoning, and as fate would have it, as they all were enjoying and as he was enjoying his fish sandwich, mine fell on the floor before I could take a bite of it. I was so mad and so hungry. (laughs)

The question of whether I, as a little believer, am on the radar of the Lord of the Worlds that He would even receive it (prayer over food) was what the argument was. Why would He receive it if it’s ritualism? Why would He receive this praying over fish? So that issue nagged me throughout my whole journey. There were some nagging issues. So it wasn’t a moment in which I discovered the tear. It nagged me from the beginning until I got to Chicago and demonstrable proof, demonstrable evidence, was given to me. But it nagged me the whole time.

EM: Yes sir, thank you.

In January of this year, the Study Group webcast that was shown from the Final Call Administration Building in Chicago with Sister Ava Muhammad and a few others, featured clips of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan teaching about faith and knowledge. He said, “Faith is greater than knowledge. Faith is in the absence of knowledge.” 

WM: Yes…

EM: And he went on to say, “We are not the Best Knower, we have to have faith in Him, Allah.”

WM: That’s right…

EM: He said, “Big belief can accomplish what those in this world with knowledge cannot.”

WM: That’s powerful.

EM: Yes sir. How and at what point did you begin to tip the scale of what you know toward faith? What was that first thing that you had to do, or what was that first step you had to take?

WM: Beautiful question. The faith versus knowledge dynamic was also the dynamic that was in my consciousness from the very beginning. It became acute for me, because Allah happened to bless me to know. This is to emphasize the tear in my spiritual garment, because Allah blessed me, Sister Ebony, to factually know the reality of this Teaching of Islam. My introduction to the Teachings was totally intellectual. My approach to it was academic. I studied every aspect. The truth of this Teaching, the body of wisdom is not a matter of belief or faith to me. It is a verifiable body of knowledge that I can demonstrate by Allah’s grace across the world.

Allah blessed me to become a knower of the truth of His Islam, not a mere believer in its truth. However, therein lies my challenge and my trial. All while I’m sure and self assured that Allah has blessed me to be a knower of the truth of my religion, while I’m seeing people all around me — and I’m the main antagonist in many of these situations– people having their faith ripped out from under their feet, because knowledge will come to them or something would challenge their faith, and oftentimes it’s me ripping their rug of faith out from under their feet. True story. So while I’m self-assured in the truth, I’m still conscious of the fact the Quran is very clear that, “Blessed are the believers…”. It’s the believers, not the knowers. So I’m conscious of that this whole time, but not knowing really what that means except that I know that I had my deficit.

I did become increasingly aware of the issue of whether I am on the God’s radar. For a long time it was an intellectual question and academic question. It nagged me purely intellectually in the beginning, but over time it became clear that it’s not just a matter of an intellectual matter to be solved. As life progressed and things got harder, it did become clear to me that it is the source of a spiritual deficit. I did become aware as life progressed that that intellectual blind spot really is a spiritual deficit. So then it became a problem for me. It did disturb my soul for a long time. I had issues negotiating prayer, just on that intellectual …. “Will the God hear my prayer?” The time came where that was a pressing issue, not just on my mind but in my soul. So it did become an urgent matter for me. So I studied prayer, the science of it, and I believe Allah blessed me with understanding of the science of prayer, but again that was intellectually.

It wasn’t until I came here (Chicago) and things happened and I had to privilege to get guidance from the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan. As Allah is my Witness, I asked him specifically at his table in Phoenix, “Dear Holy Apostle, I know and understand that you as the Messenger of God, you have the Two backing you. Do those Two intervene in the life of the believer as well? I know that’s the prerogative of the Messenger to God, or the Messenger of God, have the Two backing him. Do those Two back the little believer in the same way?” And his answer was, “Yes, absolutely. They will back you, if you are with me. If you are with me.” And that is the criteria, because he is the door to our access to the Power of the cosmos. He is the door, and he went on to explain beautifully, and disabused all of us at the table of the notion that God is only the God of Farrakhan, that God is only the God of Elijah. Master Fard Muhmmad is the God of all us. Every believer, every Black person. He came for each and every one of us. So, yes He absolutely intervenes in our affairs.

Now as my life in Chicago would develop, Allah gave me the test. He put me in a situation to test that wisdom, to test that learning. I can say with all assuredly that if we are with Farrakhan, if we the little believer, if you will, are with God’s man, Allah is with us individually. Not just in a generic sense, but in a real personal sense. He is the God. He becomes the God of Wesley, the God of Sister Ebony as much as He is the God of the Honorable Brother Minister Farrakhan.

EM: Praise be to Allah! Thank you so much for sharing that!

WM: Praise be to Allah.

EM: Along with that particular instance of you asking him that question, you said that the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is the “Father of your faith.” I think about what a father is; an authoritative figure, a guide, a nurturer. In what ways, aside from what he did in answering your question, did and does his representation nurture that part of you that needed to know? 

WM: Very directly. Very directly.

EM: Let me say this Dr. Wesley. For those of us who have never sat at the table with the Minister to ask a question like that, is why I say his representation. 

WM: Yes ma’am. Understood. It’s a blessing. I said the Honorable Brother Minister Louis Farrakhan is the Father of my faith, and I spoke deliberately. He isn’t the Father of my belief. I had belief without faith. I had belief that grew to knowledge, but all the while I didn’t have faith. It was absent, even in the transition from belief to knowledge.

The Honorable Brother Minister Louis Farrakhan is Father of my faith. He engendered faith in me. How has he nurtured my faith? Very directly as well as indirectly. I remember, dear sister, a particularly difficult moment in my life and I had come to him. I was blessed to get an audience (meeting) and share my pain. He gave me love and guidance, but he also said something that just floored me and knocked me in the head. He said, “When you’re a Muslim, insecurity is hypocrisy. A Muslim, by definition is one made secure in Allah.” If we are Muslims and we have faith in Allah, then we are secure in our Lord. Nothing should come to us that makes us insecure, and I was very insecure in a matter.

I’ve often said from that rostrum that the Minister’s way ain’t easy. Farrakhan’s way ain’t easy, but his way is empowering. He empowers. And I’m using that word deliberately. He empowers those who are blessed to be around him if we have an appreciation of his way. When he hit me with that, and he actually said it publically, it got me into shape and my faith was so concretized after that. That’s an example of him nurturing my faith, that he fathered my faith. He knew what I needed and he smack me right, because God forbid, I don’t want to be a hypocrite. If I am insecure in Allah then I’m not being a Muslim.

EM: Thank you for that! 

I only have a couple more questions left. 

For those who may consider themselves to be “realists” and need to know what it feels like and what it looks like when that faith is starting to materialize: What did you begin to see? What evidence did you begin to see when you were feeling your faith being nurtured? 

WM: One of the first moments of epiphany…It has to be the day I arrived in Chicago. I think I had just gotten the keys to my place in Chicago, and I remember sitting in my car and I said to myself, literally, “I want to bottle this moment right now and drink from it and the feeling of it forever.” Because the year prior to that moment was one of the most difficult times in my life. That most difficult year was I think, if I’m getting my chronology correct, can be said to have been ushered in with a very painful meeting that I had with my Messenger (The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan). It was a very painful meeting, in which I left feeling crushed and that year would go on to be very, very difficult for me. It was particularly painful for me. Man, the Minister was smacking me up something awful (laughs). It hurt, and later I got a great understanding of it, but man Sister Ebony, that was painful.

So while personal matters in my life were at rock bottom, on top of that I’m suffering from the trauma of not knowing my place with the Messenger of God. That was very difficult. Did I fall out of favor with the Messenger of God? That was a profoundly difficult year for me. I was thankful up to that point, always blessed to be called by the Messenger of God as a part of his Research Team. To be blessed to have an audience from the Messenger of God, then we go back home. That, in and of itself, was way beyond what I could ever dream for myself as I dream of my future. So the thought that it had ended, that somehow I messed up so bad on top of everything else that was crushing, never did imagine that the Messenger of God would call me and invite me to Chicago with him, invite me to be at that time on the National Council of the Nation Of Islam, to bring me and my family.

Before I got to Chicago, he would bring me in and counsel me about the trip. He asked how old I was, and I told him I was about to turn 40. He mentioned that Jesus never lived to 40, and Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) career didn’t make it to 40, but that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad after 40 years of his Mission, he began a new one. He said this is a new beginning for me. A totally new beginning for me. So when I landed in Chicago that day, I’m sitting in my car, I had just moved in and I was overwhelmed by the moment. I was a daydreaming child, I was always inclined to daydream. I always dream big, but I never dreamed this big that I would be brought to Headquarters by the Messenger of God as a helper of his in this way.

That’s why I wanted to bottle that moment. I knew I would have an occasion to need to sip on it. I did not know exactly what that meant, as it turns out, but I knew I would have a need at times to sip on that bottle, if I could bottle that moment. I think that was when I had an, “Allah does still love me, because I did not ruin myself with His Messenger”.

EM: Yes sir. Praise be to Allah! 

With that said,  we know that trials will definitely challenge our faith down to our very fiber. What are you doing to maintain and sustain your faith despite the trials?

WM: Praying! (laughs)

Praying a lot more. Praying with purpose a lot more. Very simple. Praying with purpose a lot more. Now the value of prayer isn’t just intellectual. Intellectually I got the science of prayer, but life’s circumstance taught me the value of praying. Life’s circumstance here in Chicago is one of the first major trials I encountered. I thought I could self-god my way through with the Five Percent “The Black man is god. I’m a self-aware Black god.” So I literally thought I could self-god my way through that particular trial.(laughs)  I learned that I am not the god for this task, and I was forced to turn directly to and call directly on Master Fard Muhammad in a specific way, and His answer was very blatant.

That was the beginning, just the beginning of the demonstrable evidence, the robust, demonstrative evidence that I needed. He would intervene numerous times, and even when I didn’t see it or understand as such, the Honorable Brother Minister Louis Farrakhan helped guide me with an understanding of what just happened. He shined a light on Allah’s Hand in these various situations. He has helped me to know that I am, we are on, personally and individually, the radar of the Lord of the Worlds. He has intervened in my affairs, but had the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan not put me under his wing and given me spiritual guidance, I would have been knocked out of the game that first year. The spiritual tear that I came with would have been sufficient. The first year was sufficient to just rip the garment off of me if not for his counseling and feeding my faith.

EM: When I was interviewing Brother Rasul Muhammad a few years ago about how his father, the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad, escaped the death plot, one of the things he said was that the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s faith forced their faith. By their, he means the believers who were with him prior to his departure. For you to make the point that standing with and following the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is one of the ways that we can sustain our faith is parallel to that, very powerful and I’m sure very reassuring.

WM: Yes ma’am. This life requires constant upkeep of faith. Faith once acquired requires constant upkeep, because Allah deliberately sends things in our lives and challenges the level of faith we are at, at the time. When we have little faith, then what He sends to us to grow our faith will be relatively little, but as our faith grows, the adversity grows to challenge the level of our faith at the time all with the aim of leveling up.

EM: I was just about to say, He’s going to level us up!

WM: He will level us up. Yes ma’am.

I appreciate you, and I appreciate your questions.

EM: All praise is due to Allah! Thank you for your time and testimony. I think for those who are religious can identify with needing to know and balance off the blind faith with having knowledge of the truth that support their faith. And for those who are not religious can identify with how to go about achieving demonstrative evidence of the Lord of the Worlds to know for sure that they are on His radar. May Allah continue to bless and grow you and us all in our faith in this Time. 

WM: Yes ma’am. You as well.

Greetings,

I would like to open this interview for those reading to understand the amount of courage it takes to discuss such an issue, despite how it’s “trending” on social media right now. I guarantee you it is not trending by the hands of those who have suffered sexual assault or abuse of any form as much as it is by those seeking to exploit the pain and trauma of survivors, causing them to relive their experience all over again.

Niedira Kenny is one of my closest girlfriends, whom I’ve known over 15 years. She is also one of the strongest women I know who inspires me endlessly…and her stance within this interview further solidifies my sentiment of her. We’ve been through it all together, and I am deeply honored that she came to me 1) to open up and share her story with me, and 2) to ask me to help her share some of her experience and perspective with the world for the very first time since it happened, nearly 5 years ago. Because I too share a similar story and have been a megaphone for countless of others to share their stories, I knew the magnitude of the call I received.

This is not only a message to the critics who spew their unsolicited and vile comments via social media, but this is a word of Empowerment for those who feel like the wounds of their experience(s) are being torn back open by these recent events in the media and news. Not only do we share your story, but we are coming to your defense to push back against those who have no right to oppose why you chose your particular path to healing!

Peace & Love,

Ebony S. Muhammad, Publisher of Hurt2Healing Magazine…and Survivor.

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): With the recent surge of survivors of sexual assault speaking out, we’ve also seen the unfortunate pushback of their courage to finally tell their story. There have been those on social media who speak, most of the time out of ignorance, as the authority of when survivors should give their report/account. From your perspective and experience, why does the time vary for survivors to speak out?

Niedria Kenny (NK): The short answer is because we are all different and we process differently. The long of it is, many factors play into why a person has chosen to be silent, resulting in disclosing of their assault to occur years later.

Factors such as fear of losing employment. Fear of being judged and told that you did something wrong. Fear of being called a slut or whore or as a mother, fear of being stigmatized as a bad mom because you were out in the first place instead of “home with your child/children.” However, no one knows that your child was with the other parent the night it happened, and you have a right to be able to go out to eat or to the mall or to dinner etc. Fear that you’ll share your story and it will fall on deaf ears. Fear of your attacker striking again. Fear of people not believing you. Fear of people picking apart your story to say that you could have prevented it and concluding with comments about how you did something wrong.

When it’s not a random rape attack by someone you don’t know, you fear that you will have to see them again. You work together, you’re a part of the same social circle, you attend the same church, you do business together, they are family etc. You don’t see a way out. You are embarrassed and simply don’t want anyone to know what happened to you.

For some, like myself; after the attack they are still in survival mode their selves. So, reporting the assault for the sake of “speaking out” to prevent “others” from potential danger and to be the one to put a rapist behind bars, is an afterthought. They are thinking about what they need to do, to continue to survive. If they can do this without saying something, which in a lot of cases is what they have done; then that’s what they do. That’s what I did.

REF: Survive, outlive refer to remaining alive longer than someone else or after some event. Survive usually means to succeed in keeping alive against odds, to live after some event that has threatened one

REF from video game perspective: Survival mode, or horde mode, is a game mode in a video game in which the player must continue playing for as long as possible without dying in an uninterrupted session while the game presents them with increasingly difficult waves of challenges.

Then, there’s fight or flight.

REF: What Happens During the Fight-or-Flight Response. In response to acute stress, the body’s sympathetic nervous system is activated due to the sudden release of hormones. The sympathetic nervous systems stimulate the adrenal glands triggering the release of catecholamines, which include adrenaline and noradrenaline.

When you’re done fighting you take flight: It happens at the time of the assault and like adrenaline; it last until it doesn’t last. And like the adage, “It is …. until it isn’t anymore.” In other words, “What will be, will be, until it isn’t anymore.” That includes pain… and fear.

That adrenaline manifest in running, hiding, being very quiet… just as you would if your life is still in danger. You feel as though you are still under the attack. So, you sit there, and you be quiet so that no one will know. No one can find you when you’re quiet and you stay tucked away in that dark corner, unseen. You wait for it to “go away” (the feeling: the attacker) You hope that it will just “go away”

When the feeling subsides, and you feel “safe” sometimes you talk about it. That could be years later. That could be the next day, depending on how long it took that individual to come to grips with what happened. If they are lucky, they realize it was not their fault and then, they begin to speak.

It is important to remember when we are addressing one’s actions and response to anything, that everyone is different. We are created with same but not equal body parts or processing abilities.

With that simple understanding first, we would allow ourselves to be less critical when judging a person’s willingness or unwillingness to come forth at which the time their assault happened or at a later date when determining them to be credible or not and when chiming in with our own premature hypotheticals about what we would have done or what someone in that situation would have done.

For so many reasons, a person chooses to disclose it later: They have sought help for themselves and are now strong and courageous enough to talk about it without fear of judgement. They know they did nothing wrong. They are ready to take the next step to address what has happened so that they can overcome a fear of the past. They are willing to stand in the gap for others because they can identify with why someone else didn’t say something- so they come forth as a sacrifice to try to assist the next person to ensure they are not alone and that it’s ok to come forward. They want to be a part of the solution by educating and bringing awareness to aspects of why people don’t speak up. They couldn’t do any of this before, because they couldn’t do it for themselves at the time. You can’t help others if you are not well yourself. You must take care of yourself before you can take care of others.

Your fear of not surviving becomes overpowered, overshadowed with your determination to live and to assist others in doing the same. And this…. May take time.

EM: Filmmaker Ava DuVernay recently tweeted the above pie graph outlining the commonly used “causes” critics claim women are raped, with the entire graph pointing to “rapists”. For those who don’t understand this message, is there any justification for a woman to be sexually assaulted? Why would anyone suggest these other causes are warranted? 

NK: Again, the short answer is NO. Just as the word no, means no. These reasons are suggested mostly by people who have been made to believe and have accepted it as an answer, through perpetuation.

Whether they are a victim or a critic chiming in to “repeat” something they heard. It’s very, very easy to judge but it requires thought, attention to detail, analysis, and many more compassions which should exist in humans, to be able to not judge. This means work for the simple minded.

I believe they suggest this because it’s an easy way out of having to tackle a real issue. It’s an excuse to protect their loved one; their family member; their organization; the reputation of an affiliation; the attacker. And we’ve all heard that excuses are what the devil dropped on his way to hell. Victims then believe this, because everyone else has said it. And they too want an easy way to just accept what happen when they are trying to get over it or put it behind them or forget it ever happened. It’s easier to do when you can say it must have been your own fault. But that very thing is why they are a victim.

I don’t personally dress in a provocative manner but if I did, that’s absolutely no invitation to take, rob and steal from me something that I have not willfully consented to you having.

In fact, these excuses above have been challenged in the fact that rape happens with children and adults at the hands of people they know and none of the above excuses apply to something they were doing.

In my case, I had on pants that went to my ankles, a leotard that buttoned at the crotch and a wool, long sleeved coat and knee-high boots – nothing about that said, come rape me. I was sober enough to drive and I was sober enough to say STOP-NO! And it still happened.

If you can’t conclusively say that rape occurrs for these above excuses on this pie chart, then they should not be considered reasons. More importantly, and once again; the rapist is the reason a rape occurs. There isn’t one scenario which would satisfy the statement that a woman/girl deserved to be raped, was asking to be raped or knew that by doing any one thing, that it would warrant rape and then be acceptable as a cause. Period. Just as there isn’t one viable reason for a person to steal from someone.

And unless you can show me one thief who stole property who was caught, who was able to tell a Judge that the company he stole from deserved it because their prices were too high, and he his charges were dismissed because a Jury collectively agreed that this was a valid reason; then why is rape? If this happened, Versace would get robbed every day, because it’s acceptable.

If you want something from something and you cannot have it, and it’s not given to you; it is NOT YOURS to take under any circumstance. A woman’s body is her temple. Forcing entry is a break-in. Engaging in a sexual assault and rape is a violation. Sex without her consent is robbery on a level that could never be satisfied with sentencing because she cannot get that back. Yet we still can’t get people to believe that the act itself is wrong or to acknowledge that rapist is the problem in this scenario and not the victim!

NK: In the age of social media, which provides a platform for information to exist on a level where it is shared and seen daily by millions; Anything from a bad customer service experience to the most recommended DIY project is recommended and distributed by its users. There is no mistake that the news on social media travels faster than newspapers can press it, T.V. reporters can report it and online publications can upload it.

Victims and survivors of rape are among those users. Because this too, it is a topic of discussion. Especially since the #MeToo Movement.

I have to say that judgmental comments, ignorance, limited knowledge and lack of experience concerning what women and men go through might just be the number one cause beyond a person’s fight or flight, survival mode; which impairs their ability to speak out.

With regards to women and myself; they have already run these scenarios through their head when internalizing and thinking that they did something wrong or deserved it, because the world put a definition on people who dress or look a certain way being susceptible to rape to justify it happening. They have already been made to feel that rape is not a crime punishable by jail-time. They have already been made to feel that such a violation on their body is not serious enough to warrant jail-time of a first offender or a high-profile public figure, or even a random man who preys on women…. And that their precious bodies or even virginity are not worthy of consideration when it comes to being violated.

So, when they are ready to speak, they encounter what they feared in the beginning; which are those comments about how it took so long to talk, how they were dressed and not limited to what they were engaging in when it happened. They do not want to relive it again under public prosecution and humiliation and embarrassment.

Comments and judgements are the reason a victim may retreat from speaking even though they are ready to tell the story. Why? They are not ready to be attacked again by a much larger forum called “the world.” They don’t want to live through the assassination again, the humiliation or embarrassment on a larger platform this time and by people making statements about what they could have done when the issue is not what they could have done or should have done. The issue is that rape shouldn’t happen, so any comment about why it happened is repulsive. Victims will often refrain from making comments or speaking publicly after seeing how others (the public, social media users, ignorant people, people who have never experienced it, people who are protecting others) respond to another victim’s story. They began to reassess their own story all over again.

These comments made out ignorance will hush a victim, therefore setting off a mass destruction of victim’s stories, whereby they then retreat to their black hole. OR the comments will produce a firestorm of others who are willing to talk in defense for others. And therefore, you will see people who decide to tell their stories 2-5-10-15 years later. It’s not that they have an ulterior motive in sharing. It’s that they have been reading comments, processing comments and they are fed up with the ignorance, so they decide to speak! But for the ones who are not there just yet, sadly but understandably; they retreat.

EM: What actually takes place in the mind of a victim after being assaulted? What thoughts, fears and emotions do they experience? How does this play a role in whether they tell anyone?

NK: Personally, I had thoughts of guilt and shame.  I replayed the night immediately on the way home. In fact, I began to replay it as I was walking from the building and establishment in which it took place, as I walked back to my car. “What should/could I have done differently?” “I shouldn’t have said yes, I will take you to get your car.” I should not have said, “Yes, I will walk with you inside for a second.” All of that replayed in my head. But the problem with that is, those thoughts only come after it had happened. And if nothing of this magnitude had of happened, you would not have had those thoughts. I replay what ifs, for no reason, because what if was not a question, minutes before it happened because it shouldn’t have happened….it wasn’t supposed to have happened. Those THOUGHTS should never supersede the fact that it should have never happened because it wasn’t right at all!

Those thoughts only come after, because you had no reason to feel that it was about to happen. Because you trusted them. But that’s the guilt. I felt guilty. I felt shameful, because in my case, after it happened; I noticed there was a surveillance camera which had captured it all and all I could think about was who would see it and who was watching it happen and how they could watch it without helping me. I felt as though I had been raped by everyone who saw it.

The very next day, a manager, an owner and customer of the establishment began to taunt me on social media (on my Instagram account) about what happened. Sending messages by posting videos of themselves inside the shop on the same spot mimicking what happened and mocking me and making statements about my undergarments…. without saying my name. It was very clear that they had watched what happened and they thought it was hilarious. How disgusting!

I didn’t want to tell anyone at that point because I felt as though if I never agreed to take him to get his car or walk with him inside the establishment it would not have happened and I knew that’s how the world would process it, without any consideration given to the fact that this was my friend and I trusted him and had no reason to believe that rape was a possibility in this situation.

I felt as though the people who were watching it, represented the world: Cold, Heartless, Careless, Disrespectful, Uncaring, Unconcerned, Gross, Disgusting, Nasty, Dirty, …. So why should I tell anyone?

When I thought I had the courage to make a report, I called the police, who also made me feel as though “the victim” was the one who did something wrong; so, I changed the story to act as if it was reporting about someone else and not me.

EM: What do survivors need for themselves and from others immediately, and then over time as they begin to process what has happened to them?

NK: Regardless of when a survivor has chosen to speak out, they need compassion without blame and understanding without judgement from the people they are entrusting with their story. They need someone to believe them. They need someone to tell them that they did not deserve this, because that is the bottom line truth. Overtime, they need their support group to allow them the necessary time to speak. While it’s important to report it, again, we are all different and may not be ready to share with anyone aside from the person we shared it with; the details of what happened. So, what we need is for someone to recognize that we may need time and just support in the process of healing ourselves first. Do not rush them, because it makes them feel guilty and they are already dealing with guilt over it happening to them. It creates a heavier burden when they feel pressed to rip the Band-Aid off right away. It’s easier to peel away at a scab and allow fresh skin to be seen, than it is to keep rubbing a wide-open wound.

While healing “properly” is taken into consideration with my analogy above- I can’t say that there’s a proper way to address an overall concern which affects every individual differently. Xanax treats anxiety, but everyone with anxiety can’t stomach it. In prescribing prescriptions, a good doctor can gauge from questions what will work better. And therefore, all suggestions will not work for every person.

EM: Why do you believe it seems easy for critics to speak vehemently to survivors, especially in a way that tends to re-victimize them? What words do you have for those who feel they have that right?

NK: The question answers itself; its EASY. It’s the easy button! If we don’t want to deal with something, we just ignore it or tell the victim that they are the problem and there… It’s solved: Stop wearing short shorts.

They are the problem for it happening to them, they are the problem for bringing it up, they are the problem for addressing it. All the while nothing gets handled. And it’s not even an easy fix. It’s just an easy response. When people don’t know or understand, it’s natural to criticize. Otherwise, they are superstitious in believing in things that they don’t understand. No one knows why rapist rape people or why they are rapist to begin with. There’s a dichotomy in that alone and something that needs to be addressed. And instead of people tackling that as the issue, they attack the victim as the problem. Thus, they are not a part of the solution.

It’s easy for people to attack a victim because they are defending someone they love and can’t/don’t want to believe for themselves that this person was/is, capable of doing such a thing. Rather than consider it as a possibility after listening to details and evidence they shun it, are opposed to hearing it, shut down listening or are outright ignorant as hell in being able to do due diligence. They simply do not want to hear it because it concerns someone that they love and adore for whatever reasons; Son, Father, Pastor, Business Partner, Elected Official, Churchman, Community Organizer, Doctor Brother, Uncle, Cousin, Family Member, etc. They have loyalty to that individual or are under control or are reaping a benefit that comes from association or affiliation with that person, so they want to support that person at all cost. They too, are victims of manipulation and deception and are selfish enough to come to the defense of an abuser to make sure that their benefits do not suffer from the prosecution of this monster!

The ones who speak out without any grounds for dismissing a survivor’s claim are disgusting individuals to me. They represent the epitome ignorance, the epitome of selfishness, the epitome of vile and they too, are just as bad as the rapist himself. Because they too, have now raped a victim of their right to tell their story. They rape a victim of their right to share it on their own terms, they rape a victim of their right to free themselves of the demons of their past. They rape a victim of their right to address the abuser/attacker. They rape the victim of their right to be innocent and due process. They rape the victim of their right to processing emotions differently. They rape a victim of their right to be angry or sad or emotionless or full of emotion when sharing their story because of the judgement that will follow about how they “should be acting” if this truly happened to them. They rape a victim of their right to save the life of another individual, therefore leaving them feeling that this happened to them in vain.

What I would love for these people to do is to have a seat at the table with victims and survivors of rape and allow each of them to tell their very different stories of how their rape happened. I would like for them to be as opened minded as they have been closed minded, to listening to victims and survivors who have decided to speak out along with those who have yet to take a public platform and stance against it, so that they can understand that people are different and that rape is real and that rape under any circumstance is a crime and that no one deserves to be raped. I would like for them to listen to the stories before they discredit the storyteller. I would like them to hear the story before they dismiss the contents. I would like for them to understand the circumstances surrounding a victim’s life at the time in which their rape occurred to try to gain an understanding as to why it was not reported immediately.

Most of all, I need them to just know that rape is wrong. And that even if you don’t believe it happened, keep in mind YOU WERE NOT THERE!!!!! So, listen before you prosecute, listen before you pass judgement, listen before you chime in and NEVER EVER, AGAIN IN YOUR LIFE SAY to a victim “Why are you just now reporting it!” And if you can not do any of this, DO NOT CHIME IN AT ALL.

EM: What words do you have for the survivors and their supporters to encourage and empower them concerning how to deal with critics?

NK: Dear survivors, you have survived what may possibly be considered the worst of what life can deal you. You are not to blame. This is not your fault. You did nothing wrong. You are worthy. You did not deserve this, and you did nothing to deserve this. Your attacker is the one who did something wrong. He/she is a sick individual mentally, emotionally and spiritually wounded and quite possibly destroyed so this is the way to rebel. THIS does not excuse their behavior. It does justify your voice to speak out and to speak up and to be courageous and confident in standing in your truth. Someone violated you. You did not violate them by anything you wore, by any amount of drinks you had, by any establishment you chose to patronize, by any affiliation or social organization you decided to be involved in,  by any flirtatious behavior you had… because if you said no OR did not consent; you were raped and it was not your fault. I believe you. I understand, I stand with you. You are not stigmatized… I do not see you differently just because someone violated you. You are exactly what you were prior to the rape occurring. Except now, when you tell your story, you are a hero.

Dear Supporters of rape victims and rape survivors, I need you to tell them the same.

EM: What do friends and family of survivors need to know, do and/or say when someone opens to them about being sexually assaulted? Are there any additional don’ts you would like to mention?

NK: Your family member and or close friend has just endured a traumatic moment. They are afraid. They are in survival mode. They are fearful. They feel violated. They are embarrassed. They are humiliated. They are already blaming themselves in most cases. They are already on the brink of not surviving! They want to die! They want to survive! They are conflicted. They just lost a part of themselves. They are confused and cannot process why this just happened to them.

They are a victim! Don’t ask them if they were drinking. Or how much they drink…Don’t asking them what they were wearing? Don’t ask them why they decided to go or do anything with their abuser/attacker on the day that it happened. All these questions imply that they did something wrong.

The message here is that rape is wrong on all levels, multiple levels and is never justified. So, when someone says they were raped, it doesn’t matter what the circumstance was. Because there is no excuse to justify it and there is no reason that validates rape. It is never the victims’ fault.

It is ok to give advice to women about going out and how to be vigilant. In doing this, you are making them know that rapist is out there. Rapist are the problem and since they are out there, here’s what you need to know about being aware but even if it happens and you did all that you were “supposed to do” they exist because they are who they are; it is not your fault! But never making them to feel that something they are doing is what warrants the rape or sexual assault.

Never tell them what they “should have done”, because again, you are telling them that it is their fault. Never tell them what you “think” they did is what allowed the opportunity for the rapist to rape them. They are a victim in any instance of rape! Support their decision to share the information with you and do what you can to access the resources and tools available and at your disposal which would aid in the immediate healing process and in the case of someone who has spoken later, continue to offer them support. Support in the form of letting them know that their choice to speak about it 10 years, 5 years, 2 years later is okay.

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

NK: I would have spoken about this sooner if I did not have to consider the insensitive, ignorant, and unwarranted re-victimization comments that would have followed. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that people understood that rape was wrong on all levels. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that I didn’t have to risk being called a bad mom over this happening. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that this wouldn’t ruin my business connections, affiliations, relationships and sabotage my success if I brought charges against the attacker. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that I would not be exiled from my social circle and deemed a snitch or a seemingly promiscuous woman since this happened to me.

I would have spoken sooner if I wasn’t worried about how I would look to the public, being someone who advocates against this very thing. I would have spoken sooner if I was not worried about people saying I got what I deserved just because they don’t like me. I would have spoken sooner if I was not worried about people who would say that I am just looking to make money off the story, make money off the man, destroy a man’s life who “probably just did not want to be with me.” … according to what people would conclude.

I would have spoken sooner if it wasn’t an NBA player whom everyone loves and adores. I would have spoken sooner if it wasn’t a man that everyone in the community respects and admires. I would have spoken sooner if I had as much money as this man so that I could afford the legal defense that he would have. I would have spoken sooner if he wasn’t a politician who knows how to ruin my life if I ever make this allegation. I would have spoken sooner if it wasn’t my boyfriend or my husband, my pastor, friend or family member.

I would have spoken sooner if I was comfortable with the police. I would have spoken sooner if I did not over hear someone say that a woman did something that warranted rape. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that people wouldn’t say that there are reasons that accompanied rape.  I would have spoken sooner if I knew that authorities took rape seriously. If I knew that I would have been protected, I would have spoken sooner. If I knew that someone would not take advantage of my vulnerabilities after this happened, I would have spoken sooner. If I knew that I could be normal in my response to the attack, I would have spoken sooner.

If I could have expressed true emotions after my attack without judgement on how I should be reacting, I would have spoken sooner.  If I knew that I could be safe with telling someone, I would have spoken sooner. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that people would not blame me or look for reasons as to why this happened to me. I would have spoken sooner if I was comfortable with knowing that a prosecution would have happened… a conviction and that my attacker would have been jailed. I would have spoken sooner if I knew that I did nothing wrong! I would have spoken sooner if I knew someone would have believed me.

Most of these reasons are my own. However, a lot of the reasons above are reasons that belong to other women about why they don’t speak up sooner or when it happens.

If I had someone who I could speak to who would have comforted me, rather than condemn me, I would have spoken sooner. If I knew that the world would not chime in on what they think I should have done differently about this night, I would have spoken sooner. If I knew that people would consider the circumstance and would not speak unless they knew what happened, I would have spoken sooner.

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): As a single father how are you able to still raise your daughter with balance?

Ramel Werner (RW): The balance comes from having and maintaining a healthy relationship with her mother. No matter how we feel about each from time to time, Ryann loves and needs both of us.
EM: What has been some of the most challenging aspects of being a single father raising a girl? What has been some of the most rewarding aspects?

RW: Sometimes I have a hard time handling the over-sensitive nature she has, and I feel like I’m  not adequately helping her with things she gets upset over. The most rewarding aspect would be the absolute worship in her eyes when she sees me. As soon as I pick her up from school or walk into a room, all I hear is Daddy, Daddy!! No matter what kind of day I have had, that brightens my day 10 fold.

EM:  What are a few things she has taught you, especially as it relates to the nature of the female, that you appreciate?

RW: Ryann has taught me that no matter what insecurities I may have about myself, I am perfect in her eyes… That it is important to laugh… That prayer is a part of every single day. Every moment… To slow down and listen… To never give up… That spending time with them is more important than the perfect home… To not take life for granted… That her heart is more important than stuff… That being a father is a gift… To love. Deeply… That family is ultimate of importance… and the only perfect thing in this world is her smile.

EM: How important is it for you to be the example of the husband you hope she will have one day? What, if any, did you have to change about yourself? What values, advice and standards are you teaching her?

RW: When someone says “oh, your child looks like you”, you hope your child inherited your best features. But when someone says “oh, your child is doing this just like you”, you hope your child is not misbehaving in any way from your bad examples as a father.

One of the most important things I needed to change was my concept of success. There were many a times in my younger days, I was quick to quit something that wasn’t necessarily in my immediate reach. When Ryann was born I noticed a pattern when she would get upset easily. She would give up on the task at hand and move on to something else.  I started telling her whenever she was faced with adversity and wanting to give up that “Werner’s don’t quit.” I now know one of the many reasons God blessed me with Ryann was for me to remember that saying as well.

EM:  During certain transitions in her life that are women-specific, what support system do you have in place?

RW: I rely heavily on my mom and sister for support. I also have a network of women, family members and others who can translate some of what’s happening in my daughters life.

EM:  How do you approach the idea of dating as a single father? Dos and Donts, requirements of the woman you’re dating, the opinion/feelings of your daughter, etc.

RW: Easy. I don’t date. My main objective at this time is Ryann 1st and the relationship of her mother and I 2nd. It takes a good team work to raise your child right. I feel it’s important for me not to focus on attraction to other women until we’ve exhausted all possibilities of becoming one big  happy unconditional family.

EM: What is your response to those who speak critically of single fathers raising girls? What are your thoughts of single mothers raising boys?

RW: In all due respect to those who speak this nonsense… Are mothers and fathers different in how they raise children? You betcha. But so what! When these discussions arise, they should never, ever be about the parents. They must always be about the little ones who give us their trust that we’ll behave like responsible adults, and so, bring grace into their lives.

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

RW: My daughter Ryann has opened my eyes to the beautiful struggle fathers face in giving their lives to their children. It isn’t comfortable, and often times it flat out hurts, but raising a daughter builds depth of character that can only be understood by others who have traveled a similar path.

I thank God He saw fit to make me a father..

Ramel Werner is a proud father, motivator, educator and encourager. The desires he speaks of start with an alarm clock waking him up every morning and his goals toward them are what get him out of bed.

Follow Ramel on Twitter @ItsRamel and visit him online at www.ItsRamel.com 

Greetings H2H readers,

I wanted to share this interview with you all to bring some needed awareness to a subject that many don’t discuss. I, personally, know of at least 3 males who have experienced domestic violence from their spouse. Many don’t talk about their assaults due to the uneven perception of others or how it made them feel as a man. Yet, I believe this angle is long overdue for discussion.

According to BatteredMen.com,  5.3 million men are abused per year with 40% severe physical violence, but more often psychological. 

I pray this brother’s testimony finds a firm resting place in your minds & hearts. 

Thank you & Peace,

Ebony S. Muhammad, Publisher of Hurt2Healing Magazine

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): Please share the background and circumstances which led to the domestic violence you encountered in your marriage? 

Rodney S. (RS): I am 28 years old, and I got married to my wife in September 2011. My Wife is 25 years old. We have been together for 4 years prior to getting married.

We separated in January 2013 due to me being assaulted by my wife. I don’t even like to call it that but it is what it is. The build up to this assault in my version goes like this.

It was a Saturday in January, and we were to going to my Sister-in-Law’s in London because it was her Birthday. We were going to be traveling with my In-Laws. At this time I was fasting, and I was doing a Daniel Fast so I could not eat meat and certain foods. I had asked my wife if she could find out what food might be at her sister’s so I would know if I could eat with them or not. She was not willing to ask and told me to bring my own food. So that morning I went out to get some food that I could prepare to bring with me. Before I left she asked me to buy a plate and bowl that to replace the ones that had accidentally broken months ago.

When I walked through the door I saw a text from her asking if I could get some eggs and other stuff. I apologized to her and said that I did not get the other stuff as I have only just seen the text message. She was annoyed and said, “Do you not look around the kitchen to see if there is any other stuff to get”? I said, “I’m sorry I did not look”.

I handed her the plate and bowl and she said that it did not match the current set we had and to take it back and aggressively asked when I would take it back. It silenced me and I said I would take it back on Monday.

To fast forward a little, we spent the day in London and she avoided me the whole time. The next day was Sunday, and she was working and I attended church. I got home from church quite late in the evening. I had been messaging her during the day to see that she was ok. When I got home she said to me she was going to bed. I said I’ll be up later. It was midnight and she woke up to go to the bathroom I was shutting down my laptop and just waiting for some updates to complete. She asked if I was coming to bed and I said yes and that I was shutting down the laptop. Then she moaned that I would wake her up when I come into the room. I said that you’re already awake, and then she said that when I wake up in the morning I would wake her and I said I’m sorry, but this happens every day.

We went to bed, and during while I was asleep I began to snore. She woke me up and asked me to turn over, because she could not sleep. So I sat up and said I can’t sleep on one side the whole night I toss and turn. She then pulled off the covers and stared at me. So I went to take the covers back so I could turn over, and I asked her to let go of the covers. She said nothing and stared at me I asked her 4 times to let go of the covers on the 5th time I shouted let go and my wife headbutted me in my face.

I sat in shock and in silence. I picked up my phone and called my In-Laws who live a 2minute drive from our flat. I told them what happened and asked them to come and take my wife. To cut a long story short they did not come. I sent a message to my church family via WhatsApp in brief saying, “Please pray, my wife has headbutted me”.

I threw the phone on the floor and attempted to go back to sleep. I was scared and in a lot of pain. At around 4am I woke up, picked up my phone and went into the living room. I called the emergency services and told them about my pain, and they said to come to A&E. I went back to the bedroom to tell my wife that I was in pain and that I was going to the A&E and she sniggered as to say, “Why are you going to the hospital”? I went and got checked out and informed my family. They did not allow me to go back to my flat as they said they are not burying their brother. We separated after this and I moved out of the flat to my sister, and I am still here till today.

EM: Did it begin with verbal abuse, and if so please share some of that and how it made you feel, think and respond.

RS: The verbal abuse between me and my wife came out of anger, frustration and most so because issues between us were never resolved. I felt I always apologized for things that were not my fault just to keep the peace. It would make me feel low and less of a man. It was all about power and control with my wife. She wanted me to lead, but she would not let me because she always liked to be in control.

EM: As a result, did you isolate yourself from family or friends you were close to? 

RS: We tried to resolve out issues as much as we could on our own. We had some counsel from church but were advised to get professional help. Our families did not get involved until the last minute. My wife did not like everyone knowing our business, and I felt the same way which is why we tried to resolve our arguments on our own.

EM: When and how did the abuse turn physical? Where were you when it took place?

RS: The first time it got physical was on my wife’s birthday when we went out with friends to a club. My wife had a few drinks prior going to the club. I did not want to get involved in the drinking, because the people we were with were not doing it responsibly. This upset my wife and caused her to distance herself from me the whole night. I approached her in the club and asked why she was avoiding me. It turned into an argument, and she ended up pushing her hand in my face which knocked my glasses off. I picked up my glasses and went towards my wife as I was angry at this point and her friends thought I was going to hit her and they stepped up to me. I am so glad they did this as I don’t know exactly what I was going to do if I got up to my wife. I got kicked out of the club. But this was when it started getting physical.

EM: What were triggers for her to act out toward you?

RS: The triggers would be raising my voice or not resolving things straight away if she was upset, because this would make her fester. I was not physically afraid of my wife, but her words could be quite damaging. It did not help that I was passive and just accepted it.

EM: At any point did you take on the belief that it was your fault and that you deserved what was happening to you as is the case with female victims?

RS: No. I knew I did not deserve to be treated like this. But I did not see the underlying issue and just moved on thinking that it would sort itself out. I realized that whatever started to make my wife become violent had to with something from before I came on the scene. I have never done anything to her that should make her react in that way. The only thing I do feel guilty about is not trying to get her help while we have been separated, but she does not talk to me and does not think there is anything wrong. She has to do this journey on her own.

EM:  What thoughts about being a male in an abusive relationship came up for you? What was the most difficult part about this for you?

RS: When I was headbutted I did not retaliate with violence. I never touched her at all. I immediately called my In-Laws to come and help and take her, but they failed and they did not come. My male friends salute me and say well done for not hitting her.

I was very hurt, because it made me think how many more men are there out there that are being abused and not talking about it. I initially was going to keep the incident to myself.

The difficult part for me was thinking to myself, “Why is this happening?” and “It’s not supposed to be this way”. I chose this woman to be my wife; I did not want anyone else. My confidence was knocked, and my manhood was violated which made me angry inside.

EM: What factors kept you from walking away when it first began?

RS: The fact I did not want to divorce. I knew marriage was hard work and my rationale was to keep working at it.

EM: Let’s go to the moment you knew it was time to leave. Did you confront her, inform her or leave without her knowing? 

RS: A phone call was made between us on that day in the morning when I came back from hospital, and we both said it was over.  My sister came with me to get some things from the flat so I could be safe and stay with her. This is how I left.

EM: What thoughts were going through your mind as you made moves to leave?

RS: I had butterflies. I did not want to divorce, but I was still in shock about what happened. Initially my safety came first so it was important that I left the flat for that reason. I was scared about the next steps so I was not 100% committed to getting out because I love my wife. I just knew she needed help.

EM: How did she react once she realized you were leaving her?

RS: I would not know as I was not around. We did meet up a few months after the incident to see where we were and what we would do to move forward. She was not interested in getting back together she was still angry about being brought in by the police for questioning about the assault. I said to her if this is the last time I ever see you I just want you to know that I am sorry for whatever it was that I did. I said I want to take responsibility for anything I did wrong.

EM:  What was your healing process like? What promises did you make to yourself as it relates to relationships?

RS: My family and friends were my support unit. They contacted me from time to time to check I was ok. I was going counseling prior to this incident and so I have continued with that. It had not been easy. I still get angry inside about the incident. It was very traumatic as the incident played over in my head for at least 2 months, and it was after that I could sleep properly. I didn’t make any promises about relationships, but if we do not reconcile then it will be a learning experience about how info about my future relationships.

I am stronger. I can walk the streets with my head held high, because I did nothing wrong. I would never retaliate with violence, and if I found myself in this situation again I would walk away. No one deserves it, but it’s hard because it’s always the one that loves you the most receives the most pain.

EM: What is your life like today?

RS: Well I’m still establishing my walk with Jesus. I am a Musician and I’m focusing on that. I am also focusing on my health and trying to lose weight by doing 5k runs, swimming, boxing and personal training sessions. I have a busy life but still make time for me. I treat myself now and then as I never used to before. I look after my family and try to enjoy my life and continue that journey if strength and happiness.

EM: For other men who are in abusive relationships, what words would you like to share with them? How would you appeal to the ‘male ego’ after suffering abuse? 

RS: I would say don’t hold it in. Speak to someone. There is no need to be afraid. You are more of a man if you did not touch her, but if you did God can forgive you. There is not much support for men on this topic so find other men that can help you and speak out. Do not be Afraid.

EM: Does the degree of abuse make a difference, meaning does it mean less if its only verbal vs. physical? What level of concern should there be at the first act of physical abuse? 

RS: I don’t think any abuse is acceptable. I advise to try and deal with it in the first instance via counsel or communication.

Once abuse becomes physical, firstly, get to a safe place and get help immediately.

EM: What are some Red Flags you suggest men to look for?

RS: In my case it was the anger and shouting. Also power, control and emotional bullying. That’s the red flags in my case.

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add?

RS: My wife was brought into the station for questioning as I reported the incident to the police. I did this to give her a wakeup call. I dropped the charges a few days later.

My wife has identity issues and is not in a good place. I believe she is fronting and just putting on show but deep inside she is hurting.

EM: Thank you very much for sharing your story beloved. May God continue to bless you and heal you.

RS: You’re welcome, and thank YOU.

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): With your recent messages, “What Happened to Black Manhood and Masculinity”, what sparked that subject? What was it like for you preparing and delivering that message?

Wesley Muhammad (WM): I’ll answer the last (question) first. It was difficult delivering it, and I know as I said in the first lecture, it would be difficult receiving it.

What sparked it? I cannot say, Sister Ebony, that those two lectures or my crusading on the subject, if you will, were born from any event. You cannot be a follower, in my opinion, of the Honorable Brother Minister Farrakhan; you cannot be a Muslim in the Nation Of Islam, and one not see the un-manning of the Black man in America and not feel the sense of urgency about the un-manning of the Black Man in America. So those two lectures; the issue has been an issue that I’ve spoken out against and on for the longest.

What brought those two lectures together at this time? I resist being put in the normal rotation in Mosque Maryam. I don’t want to be put in the regular rotation. I only wanted to speak when Allah gives me something and a subject in my heart to speak on. So each of the four times that I spoke, it was because Allah put those subjects on my heart to speak on. It’s just a case that the subject has been a subject that I have been fighting against for a long time.

Yes, the preparation was difficult. I knew it would be difficult to deliver, because I knew it would be received with great difficulty. Indeed it was, because of the controversy.

EM: Yes sir, thank you. That goes right into the next question. What was the feedback like, especially from other Black men?

WM: Well, the Black men loved it. The number of Black men who came to me, literally in tears, was humbling. It spoke too, by Allah’s grace, the soul of our Black males. We knew, but we could not really warn precisely or articulate precisely how the life of every single Black man in America has been. We feel the un-manning. We can’t necessarily spot or spy the methods of it, but we live it, we feel and we’re burdened by it. Therefore, to hear it articulated and the methods laid out, it brought tears to so many Black men.

There was also mixed feelings and controversy. There were Black men who were burdened and are burdened by that knowledge now, because they have to go home. The sisters received it with mixed views and reviews, especially the younger sisters.

EM: Wow…

WM: Oh absolutely. Two things a non-domesticated manhood is a threat to in American society; White men and Black women. Black women have become accustomed to domesticated Black men. That’s what most Black women have in the home, and that’s what they have been accustomed to. So when I put that out there that the Black man is to be a man first in his home and he does not ask permission from his Black woman, a lot of brothers went home and sisters was like, “Don’t bring that s___ here”. Therefore, there was some conflict, but it was necessary conflict. The terms of our arrangement up to this point must be renegotiated, and the Black woman is the critical piece to the re-manning of the Black man.

Many sisters absolutely received it, totally. Either sisters appreciate Dr. Wesley or they don’t like Dr. Wesley anymore. The reason I say it was the young sisters is because it’s this young generation of sisters who are very different. It’s really the young generation of sisters who had no vision of real Black manhood. The older generation, at least they had a vision in their mind.  Masculinity was sold on television. Even if you didn’t live with it, you had Black masculinity in the media. Now, the media today, makes it total Black femininity (of the male). So the younger sisters are raised on that arch-type. They’re raised on men who are nine times out of ten, dealing with men whose emasculation is all but complete.

You have the Black matriarchy over here with the sisters and you got skinny suits over here with the brothers. Well a lot of the brothers in skinny suits, those sisters put them in skinny suits. That’s the “now” thing. You don’t see the older brothers in skinny suits. It’s the younger brothers, and it’s the younger sisters who co-signed those skinny suits.

So when the brothers go home and say, “I’m gonna get rid of this skinny suit”, the younger sisters have problems with that. So yes, there have been mixed feelings and controversy especially with the sisters. Black men reinserting themselves seems confrontational, seems arrogant, it seems all of that ugly stuff. Not that it is that, but in the Oromo tribe in East Africa, they say that a land of many hunchbacks, a straight back is ugly.

So my words are received about a Black man’s whose masculinity has been domesticated comes off as arrogant, egotistical and all of these things other than what he is trying to be – a man in a world that’s determined to un-man him.

EM: There was a Final Call tweet that quoted the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan stating, “There are efforts to feminize the Black male and plant seeds of homosexuality”. This tweet has three images of Black men, two of which are pro-athletes in tight fitted capri pants and loafers with no socks, and the third brother is on the runway with an actual dress on! (click below to see the full images displayed)

There are efforts to feminize Black men, and plant the seed of homosexuality https://t.co/P7GtvWdly1 #Farrakhan pic.twitter.com/SxrRgihZXD

— The Final Call News (@TheFinalCall) May 28, 2016

WM: Yes ma’am, Dwayne Wade…

EM: Right! So these images gave an illustration to the words Minister Farrakhan was speaking on about the feminization of the Black man. There have been over 200 retweets and countless comments. A lot of those comments were in such opposition to the concept of Black men being feminized even with having those images. There were many comments stating that none of those men are homosexual and asking how can clothes feminize a man.

How would you respond to those comments to show and prove that feminization is taking place with that example of clothing?

WM: Absolutely, yes ma’am.

One of my objectives in the first two lectures was to help our people and the world to see that the feminization of the Black man in America is not an isolated phenomenon. It is specifically a local manifestation of a global project. This global project of un-manning the Black man, White supremacy has engaged in it all over the Earth. American media has become so savvy in creating a virtual reality for most Americans. American media has become so savvy in hiding or concealing the reality of life in America for those who living here. But outside of America things are clearer, things are more stark. Therefore, by seeing the method that White supremacy uses all over the world, we can recognize those methods here in America.

One of the methods that White supremacy uses everywhere they go to achieve the objective is there can never be two men in any town. The White man must be the only man in town. Everywhere White supremacy goes, the White male must be the only man in town. So the local males are always feminized. The local gods are feminized, and they’re put in a dress. So skinny suits, skinny jeans appeared in South Africa before they appeared in the cities in America.

EM: Interesting…

WM: Skinny jeans were imposed upon the Zulu male, because Zulu masculinity, before the rise of the Nation Of Islam, was THE number one enemy to White Supremacy. The British colonial offices stated that the Zulu is the number one obstacle to White domination in Africa.  It wasn’t just Zulu military skill, it was at the root of their humiliating victory over Queen Victoria’s army. It was Zulu masculinity, because Zulu warriorhood was one part of the Zulu masculinity. Wisdom with Martial (Art) skills, masculinity, morality with integrity. It was that Zulu masculinity that the British were determined to break. They were determined to un-man the Zulu man.

One of their methods was 1) Impose an economic system that reverses the roles in the home 2) Redress the male in feminine clothing. So they imported the skinny jeans, and the ones who were caught in the skinny jeans were specifically the ones who were forced to fall victim to the new economic system, which meant they were forced into the gold and diamond mines of the British colonial capitalist system. So economic depression, role reversal in the home and redressing of the male is part of the process.

When we see an obsession with putting Black men, in particular Black men of fame, in dresses it is not an accident. Our brother, Dave Chappelle… HBO tried to assassinate his character when he walked away from $50 million. They made a concerted effort to put Black males in a dress. The dress was forced upon the Black male by the industry. In order the make the feminization of the Black male mainstream, mainstream people had to visualize it. You see it on the big screen, our heroes feminized.

Black men are being chemicalized and feminized. Who is behind this? [VIDEO] https://t.co/xZyR27xIpR #Farrakhan pic.twitter.com/J8GbnHAx8N

— The Final Call News (@TheFinalCall) July 5, 2016

So now they suggest that a man wearing a dress is not necessarily a homosexual. Well that is true, but the homosexuality is one part of the process of the feminization of the Black male. White supremacy’s objective is the un-manning the Black male, the domesticating of the Black male.  Homosexuality is too noble of a term (sarcasm) of what we’re really talking about which is sodomy; the nature of power politics of this society. That is part of the methods of White supremacy to dominate the Black male. White supremacy doesn’t have a need to sodomize every individual male. What they have a need of is un-manning every individual Black male.

The methods range from literal sodomizing of Black boys. For example, there was the National Institution of Health that dedicated $400,000  for a project conducted by John Hopkins University to study the satisfaction of under-aged Black boys that were being sodomized. That’s one method. The other method is putting chemicals in the water supply that literally reverses gender in levels. Other methods are making men present themselves before the world as women. That’s what we see in the tweets. When we see our men present themselves to the world as women, and we applaud it, the un-manning is successful.

EM: The comedian Dave Chappelle …

WM: Yes Dave Chappelle! That’s critical, because he blew the whistle on the conspiracy when they tried to force him to put on a dress. He said, “No”. He said that one executive after another, came in his trailer to force him to put on that dress. One of them says, “Well Dave, all of the greats have done it”. What that exec was really saying was, “All of your greats are great, because they complied with our demands to put on a dress and we allowed them to be great. If you, Dave, want to be great like them, you need to comply with this demand to put on a dress”. He would not do it.

When he first got in the industry, he didn’t know and he put on the dress. However, he said when he got in the industry and he started reflecting and seeing and putting the facts together, he said, “Oh, why are they putting all of us in a dress?” That day he stood up and resisted. The industry assassinated his character and his career. So we have a Brother Dave Chappelle, another whistle blower, if you will, on the inside the industry that lets us know that it’s a concerted effort that they dress our men of noted fame in a dress.

EM: I would like to go back to the younger Black females as well as the young Black males; if you could give more subtle ways that they are aiding in the un-manning that they can see better. I’m thinking in terms of the music and with some of the artists.

WM: The rise of the Frank Oceans…it’s not subtle when there’s not a Black reality show or any other kind of show that’s currently on television where there’s not a prominent Black flaming homosexual. There’s not one. It’s not an accident that within music there’s the embracing of gay artists. It’s not an accident, it’s not subtle. They are covert with it. They are open with it. It’s subtle if we don’t pay attention.

Nicki Minaj busted on the scene as this great lesbian except she’s not a lesbian! However, she was crafted, the artist “Nicki Minaj”, as this big promoter of homosexuality. So the industry is pushing homosexuality in our music and is pushing homosexuality in sports and entertainment. Every avenue to stomp out any vestiges of Black manhood, America is feasting. They will leave no stone unturned.

One subtle method, we spoke on last night on Sister Cassandra’s show about White supremacy. I was asked about Black boys in the public school system. I spoke on the experience of the Black boy in the public school system and the un-manning experience. The number one authority figure, for the most part, are Black females. Allah deposited the Black women with His attributes. So the Black woman, as the first teacher of the child, is qualified to teach our boys. However, that’s not what we have in the public school system. We don’t have that Black woman. We have the Black female that’s the spawn of, like we the Black male, American slavery.   The Black female in American society is a Black female that was shaped by White supremacy and its agenda of un-manning the Black male. So that’s what Black boys run up against in the public school system.  It’s in our Black homes.

So one asks why there are so few Black males in the public school system. Yes you hear the cries for more Black men in the school system, but not from the school systems themselves. The public school system does not accommodate the presence of Black males, and so there’s the subtle effort to maintain the public school system dominated both by White men and Black women. The two elements that are most threatened by the non-domesticated Black male. Black boys who are coming through the public school system, that’s all they have. If they don’t have strong Black male figures in their life, then not only is the public school system and pipeline to jails, it’s the pipeline to the un-manning of the Black male.

EM: My last question is: How can men honestly begin taking inventory of themselves to counter this effort against them?

WM: Black men: not only is it necessary to do an inventory of ourselves… The problem has been that we feel it, we live it but we can’t define it. We can’t visualize exactly what’s happening to us. Therefore, we have an enemy that we can’t see. We have a problem that we feel but we can’t identify. My hope is that my two lectures helped us see the enemy more clearly and see the problem more clearly. There are many ways we fall victim to this global project and not even know it.

The sagging pants: It literally signals to the White man that his boy has been or is ready to be appropriately sodomized. When a Black man is aware of the architecture of White supremacy domination of us, then we can make changes. When we know better, we can do better. Now that we know the context of the sagging pants and what it signals, now we can do better. So it’s critical for Black men to get the fuller picture of this process of our domination in order for us to be inspired to really fight it.

It is necessary for a Black man to have a genuine desire to be a man. In America, to be a real man is actually a declaration of war in American society. It will be an arduous process and we’ll make way more enemies than friends, both Black and White, both male and female. Unless our desire is very deep, Black men will not carry through with the process. We will have to fight everybody; our bosses, our mommas, our wives everybody! That’s real. Everything in this society makes a non-domesticated Black man an enemy. Most of our sisters, our mothers and our wives; they mean well. They don’t know they are a victim of this system as well. Therefore, they need to hear and know. But it starts with the Black male having the desire to be a man.  When we declare that, all of the forces of this society will come against us. So our desire must be strong enough to withstand all of that.

“Every man, in order to be a man, must be a man of God or he’s not a man at all!” – The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan

It will make life more difficult, but once the Black man finds his self-respect he must fight like hell, anybody and everybody and everything, to preserve it. Unfortunately that first fight, most often, starts in the house. Not a physical fight, of course, but the Black woman has not been raised on that. The Black woman or Black female, the Black matriarch has to get used to non-domesticated black manhood. It’s going to be a process and it won’t be easy.

What’s critical is that when the Black man finds his self-respect, he never ever negotiates it; not with his boss, not with his wife not with his superior officer. Never negotiate a new found self-respect.

The sisters: I cannot stress this enough, there is no resurrected Black man except the Black woman is the agent of that resurrection. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan said this on the Breakfast Club. A man cannot be a man without a woman. In fact he said that a man doesn’t even know that he is a man without a woman. A woman will test us, and if her heart and mind is right, she will test us in a way that will bring out the God in us. It is absolutely necessary. The Black woman is the Isis. Your Black man is the dead god, Osiris. There is no resurrection for Osiris except through Isis. Isis’ source of power is raising up her dead god, and it is through the power of her words. The Black woman’s tongue can literally bestow life on her man.

The Black woman must save her role, her critical role, her central role in the process of resurrecting the Black man.

EM: Thank you very much, Brother Wesley, for your words and for your work! May Allah continue to bless you and strengthen you.

WM: All praise is due to Allah. Thank you Sister Ebony.

Be sure to get your personal copy of Dr. Wesley’s latest publication: Understanding the Assault on The Black Man, Black Manhood and Black Masculinity.

You are welcome to follow and connect with Brother Wesley on social media. Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube

The Exclusive with Fudia Muhammad

Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): First, I must congratulate you on your first and newly published book “Children Of The Most High: Giving Birth To A God & The Science Of Child Rearing” and your current book tour! How has the response been and how has it been being on tour with this unique approach to a topic like motherhood?

Fudia Muhammad (FM): All praise is due to Allah (God)!  Wow, thank you so much, Sister Ebony – the response has been so wonderful, I am truly grateful!  The book was released on March 28, 2019 and the excitement from others about its release was immediate and overwhelming.  We are just getting started on the book tour, so we have only completed three cities out of the seventeen stops currently scheduled, but with each location, the response has only been positive and encouraging. 

There is nothing like having an unrelenting passion for something, growing it to a vision; going to work to make that vision a reality, and then it gets taken to another level because your Brothers and Sisters support you in that effort.  But I have to say, the most thrilling aspect of this entire experience is to be able to witness young people and those who are not familiar with this aspect of The Teachings of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad, become completely rapt and intrigued by learning something so profound that they have never heard before.  I am so grateful to the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan for giving me that same experience as a new Believer when I heard his five-part lecture series, How to Give Birth to a God, for the first time!

EM: May is pinned as Mental Health Awareness Month as well as the month where the world is observing Mother’s Day. I thought we could combine both and discuss the topic of Postpartum Depression (PPD).

FM: Yes ma’am.  It’s a very important topic and I would be happy to have that conversation.

EM: For those who are familiar with the term but unclear of what it means, can you please explain what postpartum depression is?

FM: Yes ma’am, certainly.  Postpartum depression is an illness.  It’s a mental illness that can build slowly or manifest instantly after a woman gives birth.  It should not be confused with “baby blues,” which is a brief period of sadness, anxiety or frustration that some women experience after giving birth which has more to do with the dramatic and sudden shift of hormone levels.  Baby blues only last for two to three days.  However, with postpartum depression the symptoms are more intense and last much longer.  Symptoms of depression that manifest within six months after giving birth and last for more than two weeks is likely postpartum depression. 

The symptoms vary from woman to woman and range on a spectrum.  Women may experience extreme mood swings: feelings of sadness, restlessness, anxiety, irritability, or anger.  They may lose interest in those things that typically brought them joy, they may lack energy or motivation; which leads to feeling guilty, hopeless and worthless.  Physically, women may experience excessive crying, insomnia, sleeping too often; or there can be a loss of appetite and extreme weight loss or weight gain.  Women may also show very little interest in their new baby or can even feel that life is not worth living.

EM: What exactly causes PPD, and is it more prominent in some versus others? What determines whether one will experience PPD?

FM: Unfortunately, the exact cause of postpartum depression is unknown.  We do know that all women experience dramatic changes in hormone levels during and after pregnancy, which can certainly produce a chemical change in the brain.  However, some women are able to navigate that shift better than others.  So, there are many factors involved.  But, based on the physical health of the mother before and during pregnancy, her family history of depression and other mental illnesses, her current family dynamics and her level of stress during pregnancy may predetermine which women are more heavily inclined to experience postpartum depression. 

According to mental health experts, postpartum depression is most likely to occur if the woman has previously experienced any type of depression; if her pregnancy was unwanted; if her relationship with her spouse or the baby’s father is strained; if she does not have close family or friends to depend on; or if she is experiencing financial difficulties.  Women may also be predisposed if they experienced severe premenstrual syndrome (PMS); if they experienced any stressful life changing events during pregnancy; if they had a difficult pregnancy, complications with labor and delivery; or if their baby was premature or had any health problems.

EM: You are a mother of four amazing children; three boys and a girl. What are their ages? To the degree that you’re comfortable, please share what it was like regarding your experience overcoming PPD.

FM: All praise is due to Allah (God)!  Yes, ma’am they are indeed a joy and a tremendous blessing – I am so grateful to Allah (God) for continuing to guide and protect them.  My oldest son, Aquil, is 21; Rashad just turned 20; my daughter, Nadiyah, is 15; and little Halim is 7. 

Wow, this is my first time sharing this with anyone outside of my family and a few of the Sisters in the MGT who were around at the time; but here we go. 

I experienced postpartum depression after having my daughter.  At the time, it seemed to come out of nowhere and it literally shook me because prior to my experience, I was so ignorant and judgmental about the whole thing.  I always wondered:  How could anyone be depressed after experiencing the majesty of childbirth; what’s wrong with these women?  I didn’t even recognize right away what was happening and I certainly did not want to admit that what I was experiencing was in fact postpartum depression. 

I didn’t recognize it because I always thought that postpartum depression meant you were suicidal, or you wanted to harm your baby, and neither was EVER a thought in my mind.  I felt no detachment or resentment toward my daughter at all.  In fact, because I was struggling mentally, I probably overcompensated with overt expressions of love, hoping that would shield her from my issues. 

But there was no denying the physical and emotional symptoms.  I was crying about everything – and I am one who is always smiling and happy.  But I was so sad and overly anxious.  I had no appetite, but I forced myself to eat because I was breastfeeding.  I was jealous of my husband, who went to work everyday and had adults to talk to.  And worst of all, I could not sleep – my mind raced all night long.  The smallest issues seemed completely overwhelming.  And my perception of how others viewed me was completely warped.  My poor husband didn’t know what to do.  He called my mother and she came running.  Her physical presence and comfort helped each time she came, but it wasn’t enough to get me all the way back to myself.

My depression was triggered by two major changes in my life that took place near the end of my third pregnancy.  I had been a member of the Nation of Islam for over eight years at that time and I served as the local Student MGT & GCC Captain for seven of those eight years.  I chose to officially step down from this post during my maternity leave from the mosque because as the soon-to-be mother of three children under the age of six, I did not think I could balance it all and my children were my priority.  Even though it was my decision to step down, I realized that my identity as a Muslim was tied to my post.  I didn’t know how not to be in charge. 

The second major change was that my husband and I bought our first house.  We literally moved in three weeks before my daughter was born.  I was so excited and relieved to be in a brand-new home; but in hindsight, a brand-new baby and a brand-new house was too much in too short a time span.  Our home needed everything to get it in order and so did my baby.

There was a period of about three months where my symptoms were very intense and scary.  Then gradually, due to a combination of real spiritual, mental and physical work, I could see that I was getting better with each week and month that passed.  But if I am being honest it took nearly a full year before I could say with confidence that I had no signs of depression at all.  I don’t know this for a fact, but it may have taken me so long because I did not seek any professional help.

EM: What key elements were significant to your successful rise through and above PPD?

FM: I want to be very careful here because what worked for me may or may not work for someone else.  For some women, their symptoms are so severe that if they do not seek professional help, it could lead to postpartum psychosis and real attempts to hurt themselves or their newborn.

I was blessed to be a student and follower of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad, under the leadership and guidance of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan.  What that meant was that even during the worst moments of my depression I was fully conscious and aware of the reality of God and I never doubted that He would in fact get me through.  I knew that I was in the midst of a severe trial and that Allah (God) had the power to help me through it. 

I remember at the time, I kept meditating on words I had recently heard from the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan…He said that when we go through a severe trial, it will either make us better or worse; but we will not remain the same.  Well that was it for me.  There was no way I was going to be worse so I was determined to deal with some painful things so I could get better.  I knew from The Teachings that at the root of my depression and all depression is ingratitude.  My ingratitude was exacerbated by comparing myself to others, having irrational fears and not feeling appreciated. 

Taking medication was not something I was willing to do because I was breastfeeding, and I did not trust the long-term side-effects on my mind and body.  And unfortunately for me, at the time, I was ignorant to the value of essential oils, teas, herbs and other naturopathic healing remedies.  If I had known a psychologist who was also rooted in the Teachings, I would have gladly seen him or her; but the last thing I was going to do was trust the enemy with my private thoughts.

So, I began writing when I couldn’t sleep.  I jotted down all of my thoughts so I could address them one by one at a later time.  Every time something came to my mind, I wrote it down.  The act of transferring my thoughts to paper allowed me to fall asleep!

Though it was so painful at the time, I now know it was a blessing that I couldn’t hold anything in, all my stuff was coming out.  I had atonement sessions with some family members and Believers that I had both real and perceived conflicts with and felt lighter and freer with each completed session.  I talked to my husband about all my insecurities, irrational fears and weaknesses so that he wouldn’t unknowingly say or do something that would trigger them.  I literally could not handle hearing about his day at work for a long time.

I made sure to make myself exercise with regularity because I always immediately felt better afterward.  It was a struggle, but I went through the motions of keeping up with my obligations at home and at the mosque until it was no longer a struggle.  I had to force myself to put one foot in front of the other every single day.  Thankfully, I never stopped praying.  I was very aware that I could not get through this without Allah’s (God’s) help and I could feel Him healing me.  It was as if every lecture I listened to by the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan was tailor made for me and my current state; so, I kept feeding on his words. 

EM: What should women know about the likelihood of PPD ahead of conception, while they’re expecting and after they give birth that may not be common knowledge?

FM: They should not be afraid or overly concerned about having postpartum depression, but they should definitely be aware of the possibility of it.  We are taught that every physical law has a spiritual counterpart.  Therefore, we cannot prepare the body for pregnancy and neglect the mind and the spirit.  Issues on the spiritual and mental plane often manifest physically.  Seek a healthcare practitioner that focuses on holistic health, healing the whole being (mind, body, spirit).  Focus on seeking balance in these areas before conception, during pregnancy and postpartum.

EM: I was with a postnatal massage client who recently gave birth and said she thought PPD was normal and was the only way to feel after having children. How would you respond?

FM: That’s really sad and unfortunate that she feels that way because it means she has not had the pleasure of experiencing the pure elation and joy of bringing life into the world.  It may be common, but it certainly is not normal to be depressed after childbirth.  The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad said the brain was created to think right.  When we are depressed, the brain is not doing what it was created to do.  Postpartum depression is a sign of mental or chemical imbalance.  I did not experience any depression or prolonged sadness during three of my four pregnancies, so I know for a fact that it is not the only way to feel.

EM: To those currently battling PPD and feel as though they are losing the fight, what words do you have for them? 

FM: Allah (God) can never be left out of the equation.  Go to Him first and not last.  No matter how impossible a situation may appear to you; it’s easy for Allah (God).  He is possessor of power over ALL things.  The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan reminds us that when we pray to Allah (God) we cannot have any doubt that He will answer our prayers.  Pray and then get the help you need.  That may mean getting professional help; going to therapy and even getting your chemical levels balanced (naturally).  Reach out for help and do not give up.  This is a mental illness that can be overcome. 

EM: Is there anything else you would like to add? 

FM: Allah (God) fashioned us with the capacity to handle all trials, misfortunes and challenges.  He is Merciful in that way.  He does not give us more than we can handle.  Do not be afraid of the process that may lead to a better you.  If Allah (God) did not manifest our defects, we would not know they exist.  And if we are not aware of their existence, we cannot correct them.  So, trials purify, and purification brings us closer to oneness with God; which should be our ultimate goal.  How else can we bear witness to the reality of God and His power to save if He does not send us through a severe trial that only He can get us out of?

(Sister Fudia Muhammad is a member of Muhammad Mosque No. 64 in Austin, Texas. She is married to Student Minister Robert L. Muhammad and they have been blessed with four children. Sister Fudia holds a Master’s degree in Education – she is a writer, an educator and an advocate for God-centered child-rearing. https://www.givebirthtoagod.com/)

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